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your my favourite person! I fully agree with you…I cant understand why other people dont see it,IF you read my posts I wrote one with very simluar ideas,I dont think I could list them all,my favourite clue is JaCK gETTING THE BLACK AND WHITE STONES FROM ADAM AND EVE…IT’S LIKE WTF!woops im not yelling plus 1 :)

also at the start of the pilot they show Jack then his eyes open and then you hear a big bang…could be the plane crashing

So Nell you are suggesting that he wasn’t even on the plane when it crashed. In which case I think that he could be in a time loop, but unable to remember the previous loops, he just sub-consously knows what to do next. His flashback shows the crash, surely that would be his most recent memory wouldn’t it? Maybe he will slowly come to the realization over the next 2 seasons that he has been there before. If he turns the donkey wheel though, surely he shouldn’t land on the island - he should land in Tunisia or somewhere else off Island. It can’t just be a Groundhog Day type thing - that would be rubbish. Also if he is automatically repeating everything that he did previously - this is a mistake as it has kept him stuck in the loop, I think that he would need to do something radically different that he thought was completely wrong in order to change things.

good one!!! there is no way that he landed alive that far away from the plane. he would be dead!! the only person to survive the crash that far from the wreckage was Bernard beause he was strapped into his chair which landed in the tree. maybe its like a reverse frozen donkey wheel…. just like Ben arrived in the desert in a bit of shock. it seems to me Jack has almost the same expression on his face when he opens his eyes. I am also considering that MAYBE during this second loop, the Locke on the beach has been reanimated. Remeber Locke in the Coffin. SO just like christian. Jack has returned with the Oceanic 6 and Locke. so Locke wiggling his toes on the beach has two meanings. the first time he wasn’t paralysed anymore. during the second loop, he is wiglling his toes in disbelief that he is alive again!? i dunno. sounds cool tho!!!!!would exlpain why he knows when it’s going to rain etc maybe he is not fully aware that he has been there before. Again, this could explain why he has this uncontrollable urge to do certain things for he feels he HAS to do on the island like getting into the hatch etc…because he has done it before and maybe all the obstacles that get in his way are the islands way of trying to say “NO!! not that way again. you did that before and it didn’t work” But Locke being Locke won’t even let the island “tell him what to do!” even if it is subconcious. there is also the idea that all the Oceanic 6 could be revisiting the island for the secongd time but are not aware the others are too. or for some reason have to pretend like nothing is happening. constants have been introduced for the characters to do this safely without killing them Such as the toy plane Kate has from her chilhood friend. Actually the more i think about it.. if any of the characters are in a time loop (whether just Jack or all six) {or even better Just Jack and Locke} ie. science vs Religion. then it is possible it is just their conciousness like when Desmond was jumping through time. otherwise there should be doubles on the island. if you get me…

I”ve watched it several times and it is definately inconclusive on this matter. If it is a loop, I don’t think he remembers the previous loop.

That is an interesting theory. The question that comes to mind with it is that Jack’s character was only supposed to be in the pilot show and was written into the whole show after the writers saw his popularity.

Yes, but I wouldn’t put it passed the producers to make up a thing like that as an uber red herring. I have always found this ‘killing off the main character in the first episode’ a bit unbelievable.

Yeah, I think what they say about Jack originally dying in the pilot is misinformation. It seems to me that he instinctively knows where to go and how to best help the crash victims. If Jack is in his own time loop (and I’m a beliver) I don’t think he remembers it consciously.

I’d like to point out that the thing by Jack’s head has been debated quite a bit and I’m pretty sure the general consensus is that it is NOT Ben’s batton. The two objects do not look similar. They are different colors and different sizes. I do think it’s significant but I don’t think anyone has a clue yet as to what it is.

You also bring up a good point Observer. There was a tremendous amount of attention (Ben’s black baton, Christian, Vincent, Jack’s heroism, connection with Kate, etc) to make him look like a true main character. It was also written that Kate was “supposed” to be the leader and Ana Lucia was with the survivors from the tail section. We’ll all find out eventually…………

Love the idea, I do believe the Oceanic 6 go back and not just to the island but in time. However, due to the time travel they do not have their full memory, all they have is deja vu and coincidences. And since they can not remember why they were sent back, Locke fails to push the button and the loop continues. Didn’t you think Jack’s reaction to the button was rather odd. If he didn’t believe in it why did he always try to get Locke to push it?

i completely agree!! i don’t know that i think its a time loop, cause where does the original jack go then? would mess up the time loop theory, but i completely agree that Jack appears to know excactly what he’s doing. I purposely went back and watched the first few episodes, with the intention of pretending it was jacks second time around. And literally, every single line he says makes it work. His interactions with Kate, Hurley and Locke, the way he wakes up and starts running uber fast in the perfect direction, even the way Kate talks to Jack, it almost seems like she’s not there for her first time either. BUt having said all that, i can’t seem to find a way that the writers could make that work. so Jack goes back, he has to do everythign over again? because if they end the series with Jack opening his eye after the crash, that doesnt really answer any questions, and we won’t get to see what happens or how they solve the problem, know what i mean?

Good Theory! I have to agree with Bailey1227, I have re-watched the pilot episode with the intention that this was the O6 second time on the island, and everything matched to a TEE! However, aside from the “Pilot” episode 1 & 2, the following episodes don’t really show too many examples (per say) that they have all been there before. All this is………. is excellent writing! It is very possible for the producers to tell us that Jack was only intended to be in the fist episode, and really he’s the STAR of the show……. +1 for me!!~

Totally agree!!!!!! The part where Jack, Charlie and Kate go get the black box freaks me out a little too. When Jack falls behind and Charlie and Kate can’t find him, he like appears from no where saying he hid in bush(or something like that). Yeah, hiding from the smoke monster in a bush? I don’t think so.

Read my theory if you want I touch on this also- http://www.lost-theories.com/theories/2008/feb/02/question-about-woman-jack-save/

+1 from me!

I’m not a believer, but I’ve never heard anyone say that Bens black baton is near Jacks head, so I will re-watch it and if I can see that, I’ll be converted and I’ll be back to give you a +1.

One question though, if this Jack has already been through it all, what happened to the original Jack from the plane?

Bailey1227,my idea was that the time loop was acting like Desmonds time travelling episode. No need for to Jack’s as it is just his consciousness that has looped not his actual physical self. therefore only one physical body would be needed. As for the Batton…. since posting this theory i have found others stating that the thing next to Jacks head is not Ben’s Batton. That i can believe. however i don’t think this effects my theory at all. whatever it is tho, it is definitely out of place! i also like the idea of Jack not being aware that he is in a loop… just that he has deja Vu etc… if this stands to reason.. one could suggest that possibly ALL the Oceanic 6 are in a time loop but not aware but are subconciously. hence Hurley being able to find the cabin, Kate being inexplicablydrawn to both Sawyer and Jack, Lockes weather predictions and unexplicable faith in things that will happen. The whispers and Walts (an others) popping up all over the place would then be echoes of the last time loop and that would mean that Cerberus is 100% course correcting. trying to match events from the last loop!? You could go even further and suggest that the pilot episode is not just loop number 2 but maybe even number 5, 8, 10 etc… not likely but possible.One could suggest that in fact some of theOthers have already looped at some point , but are aware of what is happening so are able to manipuate the situation/destiny/time/space more which is whay they have so much information on all the losties and seem to be a step ahead.. Hmmm

My question would be, if JAck has been through it all before then why does he make all the same mistakes? Also why does he remain so firmly the man of science if he is stuck in a time loop?

because maybe he isn’t making any mistakes. maybe Locke is making the mistakes and Jack is back a second time to make sure Locke continues to push the hatch button etc. maybe that’s why Jack is always so firm in his actions and always so sure when contradicting Locke. he knows he is right. just a guess.. to be honest i’m not sure. all i know is that i’m pretty sure (although a guess) that some sort of loop is in effect in the pilot. whether it is just Jack or all O6, and whether he/they are aware of the loop or not i think remains to be discussed. Personally i don’t think a time loop idea is a travesty like other people. And I don’t this it is completely impossible either. it’s only because we (the Lost obsessives) disect and analyse the show to death so that no ending will ever satisfy us. To the average viewer i think a time loop would be a great shock and not expected.

Another questions that comes up, is if Jack knows what is going on - because he has been there before, why do he fight Locke (and others) about staying on the island? He wants to leave when he is on the island, but then after he leaves he wants to go back. If he knew about all of this, why is he still fighting to leave?

I just posted a theory looking at the time loop from a different direction. I think this is Jack’s second time on the island, and he wanted to leave because the first time, he stayed, and died, just like Locke. He got back this second time (for season 1) IN A COFFIN, and all the flashbacks we’ve seen are from HIS FIRST TRIP to the island, during which he was bringing his father home, and Locke happened to also be on the plane…Locke, was there, with Christian, and Locke left, Christian died and so Locke went back….this is why Lock and Jack disagree…Jack’s first experience (Locke’s second) were in opposite places. Now, in our show, Locke stays, and Jack leaves. I think it fits…

i really hate this theory. i really do. nothing personal starship, but everytime i’ve read it from anyone who’s hinted at anything like this… hate.

first, that is not ben’s black baton next to jack’s head. it just isn’t. it’s a different size & shape.

second, why would the baton have anything to do with time travel? i don’t see the producers saying “hmm… introducing time travel & quantum physics into the show just isn’t complicated enough. what we need is a non-sensical & completely useless item that you have to have with you when time travelling. hold on… i know… a baton! huzzah, we are the masters!”. eh?

third, did the polar bear (that ended up in the tunisia) need a baton to time travel? do they get their own ones, or is is that particular baton that is needed to time travel? if so, wouldn’t it now be in a different time & not able to be used again by anyone in the original timeline? but if not, how many batons are there that are time-travelling batons? are they manufactured, is there a limited number, if there some magic incantation that makes them special? who made/discovered these fanciful batons?

fourth, why would they allow the makers of the lost video game to steal their big surprise ending? the video game ends with the main character waking up in the same place in the jungle he already did, for his second time around crashing on the island. it doesn’t seem right that they’d put all this time & effort into the show then say “bah, let them use our big surpise ending in the video game. nobody will notice”.

simply put, i just don’t think the producers would do it. and if they do, i’ll hunt them down. for real.

As i stated before in subsequent comments after the initial theory.. the black batton thingy is neither here nor there. it doesn’t actually effect the theory. I was not suggesting that the Batton was the method for time travelling. I was just pointing out something that is truely out of place. enough with the batton already!!!! You are obviously an idiot…. Unfortunately, i have better things to be doing with my time than playing computer games. Although most comp games do tend to be connected in SOME way to the shows/films franchise they are part of. They wouldn’t just let the game developers shove in any old ending. the producers prob have a huge say in how the games are developed. and if you hate this theory so much, than you really must of hated that computer game of Lost you bought.. if that is indeed the ending.

starship, righteo, you wanna have a go?

you’re right, i’m obviously an idiot. because if you didn’t think the baton had anything to do with the time travel, i just don’t understand why you even mentioned it. nothing to do with time travel, doesn’t actually have anything to do with your theory, but written in there just the same. like everyone else who mentions this time loop malarky. but you know, with your gigantic intellect i must just not understand picks nose & drools

why is it unfortunate that you have better things to do than play video games? they wouldn’t be better things to do if it was unfortunate… that’s just weird. also, getting ridiculously offended by a comment on the internet that had NO personal attacks (unlike yours) & related specifically to a theory, doesn’t really seem better than playing video games to me. to each their own.

no, i didn’t hate the lost game. i quite liked the game. not that it has anything to do with what i said, but you know, just thought i’d tell you.

as you stated, the producers DID have a lot to do with the game. which was my initial point. is it likely the producers would just give us the answers to the big mysteries of the tv show in a video game, was the question i was asking. which you ignored. but you know, you wouldn’t want to acknowledge my actual comments or anything, because then you’d have no excuse to blow up at strangers online. and that would be a true shame.

also, the sentence “than you really must of hated that computer game of Lost you bought” is just wrong. if you said “THEN you must really HAVE hated that computer game” it might’ve made sense.

yeah.

spiritofjazz - just a quick note- please be careful about spilling endings on your postings. I am currently playing Lost - on Xbox 360. Thankfully, I stopped reading before you told the ending… but, it would have been really disapointing to have read it!

Thanks!!