LOST Wriggle Room
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By Veefre
- LOST Wriggle Room
- Created: Apr 27, 2008
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 4.9: The Shape of Things to Come
- Status: Current
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So much for wriggle room. It’s been lost.
— Veefre
The LOST producers like to characterize one of the main threads in the series as the conflict between those who are “men of faith” and those who are “men of science”. Although recently, they changed the “science” part to “empiricists”. It may be a minor distinction though, as the basic diconnect continues regardless.
One of the problems the producers and writers seem to face is two-fold: on the scientific side, how to maintain reasonable explanations of events and phenomena while staying withing the bounds of known science. On the faith side, the problem seems to be to come up with logical explanations for how various things can occur without being self-contradictory.
The producers/writers so far have accomplished this by being sufficiently vague as to leave themselves ample wriggle room in case the plot goes places unsupported by either science or faith. But in some cases even this ambiguity doesn’t make sense.
For example, the matter of time travel. The producers have been adamant that while they have introduced and exploited the concept of time travel of consciousness, rather than of physical elements, they also rule out that such mind time travel can alter history. So far they have gotten around this paradox by saying, “The Universe has a way of course correcting”.
Of course the “universe course correction” explanation is complete nonsense scientifically. We are expected to take upon faith that it somehow happens. But even then, it stretches one’s faith.
For example, it would be extremely easy for someone, say, Ben, to travel to the past, and given his knowledge of events, make very savvy investments in commodities. Rice and oil are two current possibilities. Then all he has to do is to mind-time travel back to the present, and cash in those investments.
Perhaps this is how Widmore accumulated his vast fortune: by exploiting the Island’s mind time travel capabilities. Certainly he claims he once owned the Island, and that he intends to get it back.
Be that as it may, how could the Universe “course correct” such an investment strategy? It would be quite illogical to assume that the Universe would keep the prices of these commodities artificially low just to thward the Linuses and Widmores of their ill-gotten gains. It would also be somewhat unlikely that somehow these investments were to be stymied in some fashion, because ultimately that would have to involve the death of Ben, Widmore, or both.
There is of course no solution to this paradox, because, people, mind time travel is impossible and it doesn’t exist.
LOL.
So much for wriggle room. It’s been lost.
Still a ripping yarn, though.
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ben | Benjamin Linus | 3.20, 4.9, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1726 |
| Charles | Charles Widmore | 409 |
I don’t see how they’ve over-stretched either faith or science.
KNOWN science, yes. Unknown or just theoretical, definitely not. You should read this article if you haven’t already… http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/4260687.html?series=6 I think the writers are going to introduce some very real scientific theories (and assume they’re correct) which make a lot of stuff possible. It is science fiction, remember? If Kirk isn’t splattered all over the back wall of the bridge when they go to warp then you should be able to suspend your disbelief for Lost.\
As for over-stretching faith… that’s not even possible. It all depends on what you believe in.
I agree with you Veefre. I think that the most important thing that I have learned about Lost this season is that it is a made-up show invented by writers who decide what the rules are. It is a complete myth. When Darlton says that two of their major influnces are Chronicles of Narnia and Alice in Wonderland you know you are not dealing with the rules of our universe. I think that’s why they call it “The Lost Universe” and “The Mythology of Lost” all the time. I’m with you Veefre…the wriggle room is gone! =)
“As for over-stretching faith… that’s not even possible. It all depends on what you believe in. ”
Even faith belief has logic. For example, if you were a devout Christian, and suddenly your pastor/priest/bishop told you that Christ was really not a man but a space alien, wouldn’t your faith be a bit stretched at that point? Of course, you can always choose to believe whatever it is your are told by your spiritual leader, but this means constant adjustments to your faith, and at some point one tends to lose faith. This is probably one way, if not the major way, that religions come and go.
My point is that for faith to be maintained, there must be a logical explanation for everything that happens. Even if it boils down to “God works in mysterious ways”, or “it’s what the Island wants”… there still has to be some explanation. And if one uses the “mysterious ways” or “what the Island wants” too much without further explanation, faith does get stretched. And let’s face it, without getting into questions of heresy, the Island Faith isn’t anywhere near as acceptible or convincing as religious faith in God.
In the last couple of episodes, we saw Sawyer, perhaps the most cynical of the main Losties, decide to cast his lot with the faith-based group led by Locke. But after having what little faith he mustered completely shaken by the attack by the freighies and then the counter-attack by Smoky, Sawyer decided to go back to the beach to the “man of science”, that is, to Jack. Sawyer had his faith stretched to the breaking point.
Sure, Sawyers faith was tested… but when you’re talking about faith, anything is possible if you’re talking to the right person. Ever met a scientologist? Or a Christian for that matter. Christ returned from the dead? That doesn’t happen every day… in fact, seems like quite a stretch… people still believe it (me included).
Faith has no limits. Neither does science for that matter, considering how little we actually know…
Honestly, I could care less if it became totally unrealistic. I mean, it is a fictional TV show. I think this is why I just cannot bear to read any of those “quantum physic” theories. They try too much to cram the show into a reasonable, realistic situation, which is impossible.
good point highbrow, the very definition of faith is the belief in something that can’t be proven by science.
But faith is a system of belief like any other. When questions are raised, there must be some sort of answer so that faith is maintained. With LOST, however, too many questions remain unanswered, either by faith or science, and they seem to be building to the point where any reaonsable explanation will be very difficult.
And, while faith may have infinite capacity for understanding, the point of science is not to explain everything, but rather to explain things as far as rigorous scientific method will allow. Science is perfectly comfortable with leaving unanswered questions - the cardinal sin of a scientist being to stretch the data too far and draw conclusions that may or may not be justified by the evidence. Where faith and science diverge is when science comes up blank, and says “we need more data”, faith can and often does simply come up with some novel new explanation that often beggars the imagination of non-believers.
And that is the crux of the problem with LOST. The viewing public is not on the Island, we cannot reasonably be expected to be “believers”. Thus we have a natural scepticism when it comes to comments such as Ben’s “it’s for the good of the Island”, or even “We’re the good guys”. The Others certainly do seem to have a cult-like aspect, right on down to their slavish devotion to Ben and through him to the mysterious Jacob, who is like some Holy Man sitting in a cave on a hill, but whose word is law.
It’s almost as if the LOST crew is saying, “either you believe in the various faith-based aspects of the show, or you don’t get it”, and at that point they’ve lost half their viewers.
You’re mistaking faith with religion. Religion is a system of beliefs. Faith is belief without proof. If they’ve stretched something too far maybe it’s Christianity or Islam or whatever religion you want to apply to the show. I don’t think it is the intent of the writers to use any one particular religious system as their basis (maybe the point of the large variety of religious symbols on the door in Ben’s closet?)…
The point of science is, in fact, to explain everything. Not all at once… one thing at a time… but they aren’t going to stop trying to explain one thing after another. Sure, its important not to make more of the data you have but the search for more data is not the job of faith. That also is the job of science. You can’t really stretch the science too far either because we don’t understand much of it. There are forces at work (in the real world too) that we don’t understand so how can we really say anything is impossible?
The show, according to what I’ve read and heard from the writers, will be resolved through both faith and science. If you want to understand the show you really need to look at both sides…
Um, taking a chance here, but I propose the following:
There is no such thing as faith without religion.
It may not be an organized religion, but faith instantly becomes part of a religion. It may be a religion with just one member, but it’s a religion - a system of beliefs - nonetheless.
I believe that humans are not generally capable of having faith in something without rationalizing a system that supports that faith.
It’s not the rationalization that makes a belief system a religion. It’s the organization. Religion is about rules, rituals, observances, community, etc… all have to do with groups of people generally observing the same beliefs (as taught by the religion). The members of any religion may or may not have faith (just because they sign on to something doesn’t mean they really believe it in their hearts). Faith, on the other hand, can and should be completely seperate from religion.
Religion requires faith (or at least a show of it) but not the other way around. This isn’t opinion. I’m just stating what religion is and what faith is. Anyone can have faith in anything no matter what religion (if any) they consider themselves to be a part of.