Pregnancies, The Purge and The List
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By JohnLockeLegend
- Pregnancies, The Purge and The List
- Created: Apr 16, 2008
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 4.8: Meet Kevin Johnson
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
‘Save a dying land and a dying people’
— JohnLockeLegend
I’ve got some thoughts about the ‘pregnancies’ phenomena, the ‘purge’ and the ‘list’ which I’d like to share.
As we all know, women that conceive on the island die along with their unborn children and I’ve been thinking about why this might be.
The explanation that Juliet gives us as to why the foetus is rejected is that it’s ‘attacked’ by the body - It’s treated as ‘foreign’.
I speculate that this is do with genetics, rather than the unborn lacking a ‘constant’ or what-not. Here’s why.
The island is cut-off from the real-world and has been, we assume, forever. Because of this, the original inhabitants (not DHARMA but the actual ‘natives’), would have evolved in total isolation from the rest of humanity. (Evidence for this is the four toed statue spotted by Jin, Sun and Sayid whilst on the Yacht, illustrating that the ‘natives’ are, at the very least, physiologically different).
So effectively, the ‘natives’ could be described not only as a different ‘race’ to the rest of the world, but even a different ‘species’ altogether as far as there DNA is concerned.
When DHARMA arrived, initially the two peoples (real-world/’natives’) co-existed peacefully. Then something caused them to ‘fall-out’ and as a consequence the purge happened.
I recon this has to do with the newly arrived DHARMA employees, sleeping with, and impregnating the indigenous inhabitant’s women, causing them to die.
The foetuses of the native women, impregnated by DHARMA men, where treated as a ‘foreign bodies’ because they’re own fundamental make-up was not the same.
So DHARMA arrives, the native women fraternise with them, some end up getting pregnant, die, and then a war is initiated by the native male population to put an end to it.
The ‘natives’ are left now with a diminished, almost extinct, female population and because of this, the survival of them as a whole is threatened. They are unable to ‘breed’ (so to speak) and repopulate at sufficient rate to ensure the longevity of their race due to the lack females.
I remember from the original Hanso foundation website, that they listed one of their interests as ‘Juxtapositional Eugenics’. (‘Eugenics’ meaning the preservation of beneficial genes, through selective breeding. And ‘Juxtapositional’ meaning to ‘put side by side’.) Hanso also stated in his most recent letter that took the place of the original website that he wanted to ‘save a dying land and a dying people’. I believe this is a direct reference to the island and its original inhabitants.
Juliet is brought in to see if she can resolve the situation after demonstrating her abilities in helping her sister conceive. (Note that it was Richard Alpert, someone I think its safe to say is himself ‘native’, who recruits her).
Once they found a talented reproductive scientist in the shape of Juliet, who could hopefully solve the actual issue with conception and off-islanders the next hurdle was to find poeple ‘worthy’ of the natives (who a clearly are in some way ‘special’) breeding with.
This is when ‘Juxtapositional Eugenics’ comes into to it.
Ben and the others are interested only with people who demonstrate good, favourable genetics traits, or abilities (for example Walt). If you’re going to start incorporating other beings genes into the ‘native’ population you want them to be good ones, ones which will benefit them.
The infamous ‘list’ is people Ben/Jacob believe worthy of allowing into their society and to potentially breed with the inhabitants.
And the fundamental goal of Ben/Jacob and the Others is to create a utopian society. That’s what exists in the centre of the island, shown in the lock-down map.
Just a few thoughts, It’s all speculation. Let me know what you think.
Pretty cool Idea! +1
Jesus Christ!
This is NOW THE BEST THEORY!!!
WOW!!!
However……….I’ll be the first to come out and say…….we all now who the last mother fu#%@*s were who did this type of research…. and no, its not Bush……but the other A$$hole from the 40’s…………..
Seriously I’ve read it 3 times now, this IS really cool.
p.s Welcome JohnLockeLegend,
You should have joined and posted this earlier, it’s been a looong wait for episode 9.
Well worded and nicely presented. I agree that it’s likely Dharma was involved with experiments involving eugenics, but I beg to differ that it had anything to do with the natives.
You state, “Juliet is brought in to see if she can resolve the situation after demonstrating her abilities in helping her sister conceive. (Note that it was Richard Alpert, someone I think its safe to say is himself ‘native’, who recruits her). ”
And that “Once they found a talented reproductive scientist in the shape of Juliet, who could hopefully solve the actual issue with conception and off-islanders the next hurdle was to find poeple ‘worthy’ of the natives (who a clearly are in some way ‘special’) breeding with.”
I inferred this to mean that after the purge Ben, the remaining Dharma members and the natives all were focused on this pregnancy issue. The trouble is that Juliet hasn’t found a cure. In fact, she’s made very little progress in the three years she’s been researching the problems and she’s lost 9 patients.
Claire was said to have gone into remission because she hadn’t continued taking the, so called, vaccine that Juliet created to fight the pregnancy problems. Yet, this is the same vaccine that Desmond and Kelvin were taking? The same vaccine that Claire gave to Aaron? I’m not positive, but I don’t think Desmond, Kelvin or Aaron were at risk of getting pregnant. Clearly someone is lying about what the vaccine does or doesn’t do.
Furthermore, it was Richard’s own words to John which contradict the “others/natives” interest in eugenics. He states that John is “extremely” special because of his ability to walk. He says, “Ben has been wasting our time with novelties like fertility problems. We’re looking for someone to remind us that we’re here for more important reasons.” He wants John to find his “purpose”.
When John refused to kill his father, Richard suggests he get Sawyer to do it so that he might be taken seriously by the others/natives. Later, Richard shows great interest in whether John could see or speak to Jacob, sufficiently worried that John did not return with Ben from the meeting.
To me, this implies that the “natives” don’t give two craps about fertility issues. It’s seems that Jacob may be the key to that big discovery they seek, but Jacob can only communicate through a vessel such as Ben, and now Locke. Ben has led them astray despite his ability to communicate with Jacob and the others/natives are anxious to replace him with a new leader.
Sorry to nitpick. :(
Billy Goat makes a great argument regarding the ‘natives’ (as represented by Alpert) giving a damn about fertility issues.
I would interpret Hanso’s statement about saving a ‘dying land’ and a ‘dying people’ to do with saving the world’s popuation (i.e. via the Valenzetti Equation).
However, I do like the idea that genetic predisposition is what determines who makes ‘the list’ and who doesn’t. (Though how they can tell that by looking does defeat any logic I hold in such a notion!)
I could’t agree more, with BillyGOat, and I think that is why Ben got cancer. Because he abused powers that were given to him, probably the island/Jacob tried to punish him. And that is why they were all excited that Locke joined them, they had enought of the fertility problem. After all, there is so much more to deal with, at this special island than pregnacies.
Rimland Thesis –
The theory does bare resemblance to Nazi philosophy. The fact that Dr. Thomas Werner Mittlewerk, a German-speaking Austrian, and ‘foremost authority’ in genetics and biology, is now supposedly in-charge of Hanso Org adds credence to this - and the overall idea of eugenics being involved. But I don’t want to get carried away on that theme.
In response to BillyG and Angelo -
As far as Richard Alperts comments and Ben’s supposed time-wasting regarding fertility problems (plus there obvious indifferences regarding the ‘way forward’ between the two of them), I’ve got the following comments.
Again, I want to emphasize that this all speculation, but I’ll come out with it for the sake of discussion. This is when things might get a bit ‘out-there’.
There are possibly two trains of thought within the Other’s camp about how to replenish the dwindling population of the natives.
One being the aforementioned eugenics.
The other – bringing back descendants of the natives, to the island, possibly via the Valenzetti Equation.
There are a few reasons why I suggest this. Firstly, John Locke and his obvious affinity with the island. He has the ability to look into the ‘eye of the island’ as they put it and as far as Lost is concerned he’s a Matrix-Neo-The ‘One’ type character. Remember Charlie’s comment regarding him in the first season? Him being an actual descendant may be why he can her Jacob and Ben can’t. His paternal parentage is also open to question.
Secondly, it appears as though there are family ties between some of the cast aways, often not known about. (For example, Claire and Jack).
Christina Shepherd could be an important part of this assertion, and remember he was the first to appear as an apparition on the island, he’s the Grandfather of Aaron and also someone we’ve seen lurking within Jacobs’s cabin.
The list may not just consist of people who have favorable genetics, but also of people who could share the same genetic heritage.
Could the Others being altering fate in order to bring back descendants of the indigenous people? Is this what Richard believes is ‘more important’?
Just a thought. Thanks for the comments guys. Bet we’re all looking forward to the 24th!!
This theory was a good read but:
a) I agree with BillyG’s points
b) I don’t think that genetic disposition determines who is on Jacob’s list. The reasons Mikhail gives for people not on the list (see http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/List#Mikhail.27scommentsaboutthelist) are personality rather than genetic traits [although I am assuming Mikhail was talking about Jacob’s list]
c) We don’t know that Alpert and the Hostiles are the original inhabitants of the Island. The 4Toe Statue was built by an ancient civilisation and Alpert and/or the hostiles could be descended at least in part from the survivors of the Black Rock.
I like this. +1
What if the natives evolved telepathic abilitiies and as a result a group (island) consciousness exists. Our Losties are aware of this to differing extents. Walt lots. Locke a bit less. Jack none. Hurley now starting to etc.
When a foetus starts to grow it taps into the island consciousness at a very early stage. This results in the foetus forming external relationships and becoming independent (alien) to the mother around the end of the second trimester. Native mothers have this ability so can deal with this. Off-island women don’t, so can’t.
Shoehorn this into your theory and the native islanders are looking to supplement its female population with women with telepathic (Claire ?) / empathetic (Rose ?) abilities.
If there has been a very large radioactive source dumped on the island (asteroid ?) maybe the native men-folk are now infertile but do not age. The island would then need men too, ideally men with similar psychic abilities.
JohnLockeLegend,
I appreciate your mature and well thought out response to the various comments regarding your theory. It’s good to see you excersising healthly and intelligent debate.
But I’m sticking to my guns. Eugenics, Dharma, Hanso and other off-island connections between passengers aside, I believe the only reason anyone continues researching a cure for pregnancy problems is because Ben demands it. If Ben weren’t in charge, they’d be seeking much more earth shattering discoveries.
+1 for being cool.
I appreciate the theory, JohnLockeLegend. I am willing to believe eugenics may play a part, but I too agree with BillyGOat that the pregnancies are not the main issue. Ben is perhaps fixated on pregnancies from an emotional attachment to the issue- having lost Annie and through fear of losing Alex. Obviously pregnancy issue is a concern for future population of the island, but this is an aside, I believe.
I have been researching eugenics in great depth recently, before this post, so I am ‘up’ on history of eugenics, which was a popular notion long before the 40s though obviously then, and at other times, eugenics has been taken to an extreme conclusion, Rimland Thesis.