Man of Science vs. Man of Faith & The Coffin
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By Obscure
- Man of Science vs. Man of Faith & The Coffin
- Created: Apr 7, 2008
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 4.8: Meet Kevin Johnson
- Status: Current
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If it was Locke in the coffin it would have the most dramatic consequences and he seems the most logical person to be in there
— Obscure
People have been wondering who is in the coffin. Agreed, it could be anyone, agreed the producers may still change their minds even now, as people have suggested in other posts.
A lot of people have suggested it is Locke in the coffin. It could be other people but I think if it was Locke it would have the most dramatic consequences and he seems the most logical person to be in there, thematically.
Locke and Jack have been set up as opposites: Jack a Man of Science, Locke a man of Faith. At our current point they are in two separate camps, two leaders leading from conflicting philosophies. They are currently in conflict- one wanting to get off the island, the other preferring his life on the island with its healing properties.
I believe the programme aims to set up these two oppositions and eventually prove through their experiences of the island that these two ‘opposite’ viewpoints are in fact blurred, overlapping, less polarised. That both realities have merits and limitations and are in fact very closely linked.
So, dramatically, it makes sense for the person who is in the coffin to have died proving one or other of the viewpoints to be correct, which presents a tragedy. As Jack is alive, visiting the coffin, neither ‘friend’ or ‘family’, it suggests his scientific view of the world has been proven valid or invalid. Dramatically, I believe this scene would have most resonance if Locke’s means of death has proven he, Locke, was right and his Man of Faith viewpoint had valid arguments that Jack had ignored at his (and Locke’s) peril and now Jack regrets not paying more attention to Locke’s side of the argument and feels in this way responsible for his death.
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jack | Jack Shephard | 1.1, 1.5, 2.11, 1.11, 1.16, 1.20, 3.9, 3.22, 3.1, 4.10, 4.12, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1459 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2.1 | Man of Science, Man of Faith | 9-21-2005 | Shannon | 195 |
Key events
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| Locke Can Walk | 289 |
good thoughts +1 from me
I don’t think it’s Locke at all as I just can’t see him leaving the island. I don’t believe for a second he would leave & go back to ‘real life’ where he was paralysed & miserable, he is happy & mobile on the island now & has found peace there, there’s nothing for him to return to. I think he would fight to stay on the island or quite honestly he would die trying.
I thought it was Locke for a long time but now I think it’s Michael.
The newspaper obit points at him in a few ways: he was listed as being from NY. he was listed as having a teenage son.
The funeral was also in a black neighbourhood.
I assume that he most likely takes on another new identity when he gets off the freighter which would explain the name in the obit.
We know that his family have turned their backs on him which would explain the lack of people at the funeral.
He probably blames himself for whatever is happening to Walt and we already know that he is suicidal over this. Maybe once his work is done the island will let him kill himself.
Fair points. Time will tell!
interesting theory. +1. however, i just can’t see it happening as i think that the only way to get locke off the island is to literally force him off it, which is unlikey since the freighties have said they are not there to rescue people.
also, i think locke and jack both need to be alive in the season 6 finale to both see how you can mix a bit of science with a bit of faith, and they will both live happily on the island. but i guess i shouldn’t expect a fairytale ending in lost…
I agree it could be anyone, given the fact that writers can change their intentions after the scene has been aired.
But I am 100% sure they wanted it to be Michael. It has been said many times before: two facts: he is from NY (Lock is not) and it is black neighborhood.
This is not the first time ridiculous theories getting bumped up and I suspect good theories are getting bumped down. May be personal grudges, may be just plain inability to leave the world of your fantasies and play some real game: predicting what will happen next in the show.
It’s Michael.
But if it is NOT Michael, it could be Locke.
But - it’s Michael.
I’ve always thought Mickael too, but you do present a good argument for it being Locke in the coffin.
I as well am in the “Locke is in the coffin” club. +1
I’ll tell you why I differ…
Jack has always represented logic and free will. John has always represented nature and determinism. It was not until Eko showed up and represented god and predestination that John was profoundly changed. I believe Eko was originally intended to force John to question his beliefs. But their had been no mention of faith in John’s perspective of the world. He simply believed what he believed with no particular motive or intent.
By introducing Eko, and later killing him off, they merged John’s philosophical perspective of determinism with that of religion and spirituality. But more importantly they introduced John to predestination. Arguing semantics, predestination is neither free will nor determinism, but implies the coexistance of both. John didn’t become a christian like Eko, but he did incorporate a greater power into his own philosophy which allowed the writers to give his character more freedom in his choices while not contradicting the motives or cause for those choices.
This is why neither John, nor Jack, can die, at least not until the end of the show. To kill off either would be to force the viewer into a particular philosophical outlook of the show. Eko’s death created a backlash from viewers who appreciated his spiritual outlook on coincedence and fate. The show has never forced anyone to choose sides… You can agree with Jack or you can agree with John.
That is why the person in the coffin is someone who’s shown no particular belief system or philosophy on the show. It’s someone who appears to have no greater understanding of the island or the universe.
Until / unless further information comes to light, I say Michael is in the coffin. As of now, we know
(1) Only 8 people from flight 815 got off the island: Michael and Walt (by boat), and the Oceanic Six: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun, Sayid, and Aaron.
(2) Kate and Jack both knew or knew of the person in the coffin.
Reason points to the person in the coffin being one of those 8 people.
More reasoning: (3) Jack was the only person who came to the funeral home, and, (4) Michael used a false name once he arrived back from the island. No wonder no one but Jack came to the funeral home: none of Michael’s friends [who might have come] knew Michael’s false name.
And More: (5) the obituary indicates the deceased had a son and was from New York.
Hi valeriasj just a quick correction the obituary is actually just a news story torn from the paper and it makes no reference at all to the deceased having a son.
You can see the clipping at http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Newspaper_clipping
and the best transcript of it is as follows
Los Angeles Man found dead in downtown loft
“The body of Jo ~*~ antham of New York was discovered shortly after 4 a.m. in the ~~ of Grand Avenue. Ted [lastname], [a door]man at The Tower ~~ heard loud noises ~~ antham’s loft. ~~ [sa]fety, he co[nfessed] ~~ discovered the ~~ entered the loft a beam in the ~~ mom ~~ [ac]cordin[g]
So you actually believe Locke would leave the island?
hero…against his will
You may well be right. It may well be Michael in there. After Meet Kevin johnson it does make sense if it turns out to be him.
However, we don’t know exactly WHEN this coffin is, in the future. It could appear in the last episode. According to the age of Aaron, off the island, the flashforwards are over a year ahead. Anything could happen to Locke or any of the characters in that time. I agree Locke would not leave the island willingly, but all we’ve got is a coffin, no other explanation as to how the person got to be in there. The newspaper story could be a cover-up for the truth anyway. I’m assuming nothing until the truth unfolds. We’re not even sure yet whether the flashforwards are just one alternative version of what could happen or whether they are the definitive version. The funeral parlour name is an anagram of Flashforward, as postings in 2007 have pointed out, this is a title of book Lost may be based on (there are similarities) where people get to see a 2 minute flashforward of their life. I’m not trusting the flashforwards completely until they’ve been proven to be exactly as they seem.
Obscure, you are correct in doubting the contents of the flashforwards, it seems that whenever the Oceanic Six speak, they are lying, but this may be due to the idea that has been brought up before, that idea being that they are under constant surveilance.
Jack lies in court about … well … everything! Hugo lies to the police about never having met Ana-Lucia Kate lies to her Mother about Aaron being her son
So we see them behaving in a certain manner but as yet we do not know why, so even though the we have been told that the flahforwards can not change, our understanding of what is actually taking place in them could still be turned on its head.
We just have to wait to be let in on the secret that will hopefully give us that aha! moment. Well we can hope, anyway.
not the coffin!!! AGAIN!!!!
i wish someone would put you in a coffin.
talk about something new for a change!