LOST-Theories.com

“I have to conclude that there is another way off the island, and perhaps this is how the O6 get home.”

i agree that there is another way off the island but i dont think that the oceanic 6 will leave through this other way as i think that only ben and the others know what this way is.

i think however the oceanic 6 leave, it has something to do with the frieghter cos sayid is already on the freighter and he is one of the oceanic 6 and i doubt he will leave it and go back to the island. thought provoking theory +1

Plus, why would Ben give up his only means (the submarine) of leaving the island? There is no way he would do that. There has got to be another means. I agree. +1

Logically, you’re right.

The only caveat is in the remark Tom made when Michael asked if his people could come and go as they pleased. “Some of us,” was his response.

Did he mean “some of us” as in some Others have the privilege of access to this others means on on-off Island transportation?

Or did he mean “some of us” have the capability to make this on-off Island journey? As in there’s some kind of skill required?

(I think it’s the ‘privilege’ interpretation, myself, and the truth, once revealed, will probably be a little mundane.)

+1 (Because you do moan when I don’t plus your ass up.) :o)

Lojozz, If memory serves me correct I do recall some time ago mention of a second sub, so this may be the answer, but I am not certain.

Also, I do not believe that Locke blew up the sub, as viewers were led to believe. I think there is a good chance we may see it again in future. While, I am reluctant to say that is how they will eventually leave “the island”, I fully believe it will not be by the freighter.

Good thoughts! +1

What abou the sailboat the Elizabeth? Ben was pretty adamant about getting ahold of it, and after the others take it from Sayid, Jin and Sun we never see it again.

A wormhole? There’s been talk of one.

Lojozz, how Tom, Ben and the others get back and forth from the island really is the million dollar question, isn’t it?? I don’t have a clue, but I seriously doubt that they’ll let the Oceanic 6 in on it. lol

I agree they get off by other means, probably with Ben’s help, getting them safely out to sea to be picked up by a passing ship. They have to be rescued publicly, because of all the recognition they have received in the flashforwards.

+1

Thanks All,

AC - I considered Tom’s comment and I think there is a skill, and that is actually getting back to the island. Which is why i left the point open for debate at the end.

Dab I really hope that Locke didn’t blow up the sub, but I struggle with how he hid it.

Late - Yeah I mean’t to mention the Elizabeth as well it should be able to leave via the 325 bearing as well.

I dont understand why people think Locke did not blow up the sub. Did I miss something in that epi? Is it just because we didnt actually see the sub blow up? Dont you think that Jack and Juliet would have looked and saw? They were right there when it blew up. Why would Locke fake it? He really set out with the intent of making it so nobody could leave the island, why wouldnt he blow it up?

By the way, I am not trying to attack anyone. I have seen this theory from several people and I honestly think I must be missing something. Can somebody fill me in?

Appolo I think the reason there is a doubt is because Locke was soaking wet when they found him just before the sub blew. If he had just been inside and planted the explosives why was he wet?

Appolobar, I think Locke blew up the sub, too.

Not blowing up the sub doesn’t suit his plan to keep people from leaving. And we definitely saw something blow up. And, as LJ pointed out, the logistics of Locke taking the sub, hiding it, and returning to the dock to blow something up in a short space of time are tricky to reconcile.

I believe the (admittedly viable, if a little dubious) reason there is doubt is because Locke was dripping wet when the explosion occurred, prompting people to wonder if he had ‘driven’ the sub away and swam back as a deceptive move.

yes…Ben ALWAYS had the other way to the island

i think that the sub was just for the last stage of the trip…to fake the trip for the new people that they would recruit…

maybe the sub WAS used for travelling on of the island before..but that was when Dharma was still big there…

but later when Ben came to rule… he just used the sub as a cover for his real means to get on/off the island…

besides….that sub looks like a bathtub

i don’t really think that you can stash enough fuel and food in there for some 3000 kilometers long trip…

Lojozz, Indeed that was the argument for why Locke didn’t blow up the sub. I think anyone could agree that Locke has displayed some pretty bizarre behaviour, that appears unexplainable at face value.

In saying that, I believe he knows precisely what he is doing and why he is doing it. After all, one can hardly deny that he does seem to have a unique connection to “the island’, and serves the best interests of it.

Until we know what is the motivating force behind Locke, we should keep an open mind when considering his actions.

AC you forgot that Locke wasn’t alone. Danielle was there with him watching Alex. She could easily have brought something there to be blown up in place of the sub. And we never see her again after that scene so where did she go? Everyone else was captured except her? How did she escape? My guess is that she was on the sub with Locke. As for Locke he’s almost as big a control freak as Ben is! Locke would want to control the access to the island not just destroy i. Also remember that Alex told Locke that Ben was manipulating him into destroying the sub and Locke replied, “I know” (or something to that affect). Locke isn’t prone to doing as he’s told. He’s much more likely to use his strategy concepts he hones with his game playing to find a way to turn the tables on Ben. All of these things are why I think Locke is hiding the sub and didn’t just blow it up.

hiding a submarine? Nah, i’m pretty sure Locke blew it up. Locke doesn’t want to leave and he dosen’t want anyone else to leave.

Where the heck would he hide a submarine anyway?

Well, I think the idea of an alternate means off the island makes sense, regardless of whether or not Locke blew up the sub. Ben is a strategist, and it’s not smart to be reliant on one means in and out. It could be that the sub was the means for the “few” to come and go in an apparently normal manner, while there is another not so normal alternate manner reserved for all, and for emergencies. Yes, I’m still thinking of Harper and her strange appearance.

Okay, thanks for the explanation, all. BUT I still have arguments (of course :P) Are we really saying that Locke knows how to operate a submarine? So that he could move it or submerge it and then swim back? Really? I would even buy the Sayid could do it, though it would be a little cheesy, but Locke? A wannabe walkabouter who works for a box company? And we are basing this off of the fact that he was wet? Sorry, I dont buy that. Not a bit. Plus, add that with the fact that Locke would WANT the sub blown up and what do you have? Locke blew that sub up. He is a jerk for doing that and that was the point in the show where I started to get really angry with him. He used to be my favorite, too…dang.

Sorry for stepping on your theory, Lojozz, and clouding it up with my questions. But I just didnt see why people thought that.

Well I still think he submerged the sub, swam out, and blew up the end of the dock. Just my opinion only time will tell. With or without help from Danielle. There are many things we don’t know about Locke. His working at a box company is irrelevant with reguards to this argument. Good post!

Lojozz don’t know about the sub and don’t much care tbh. I think its a red herring BUT I do think you are spot on that Ben has another method of getting off the island. He has to.

+1

agreed that ben must have another way off island. he is a clever man and i think very devious lol but i still love him!!!! +1 by the way

If he submerged the sub and opened the door to get out… wait… The front door or the screen door?

I’m no naval officer here, but if almost 30 years of TV have taught me anything is that sub will often sink in water when a hole of some sort is present.

Good point lateralus.

Nickee - while you may think it is irrelevant to this argument that John Locke works at a desk job and it would be hard for the average viewer to believe that he knows how to drive a daggone submarine, I think it matters much. If Kate all of a sudden performs brain surgery to save another Lostie, I think most of us would throw our hands up and walk away screaming, “Oh come ON!!” Now I know my comparison was a little exagerrated here but I make my point. It isnt plausible. That is all I am trying to say here. Locke blew that sub up. Sorry.

I’m starting to think The Temple is possibly a way off the island.

So anybody got any ideas how Ben is getting off the island and more importantly how he’s getting back?

I believe Locke destroyed the submarine. We can presume a a few things:

C4’s explosive capabilities are not effected by moisture like other explosive devices, though it is difficult predict how reliable an explosion would be if the C4 were completely submerged in liquid. Most likely a detonation of C4 on the outside of the hull of the submarine would produce a destructive, but less than predictable, amount of damage to the hull, because the kinetic energy of the blast would be propelled away from the hull into the path of least resistance, ie air or water. Furthermore, there didn’t appear to be a means by which to attach the C4 to the outside of the hull, like a magnet or strapping mechanism, making more difficult to create a predictable explosion from outside the sub.

On the other hand, the maximum damage would occur when the C4 was placed inside the sub in a small, relatively enclosed space, presumably near the four diesel/electric engines known to exist in a Balao class submarine. The diesel fuel would most likely fuel a massive initial explosion and possibly create secondary explosive forces, maximizing damage.

The interior of the submarine was shot on location in the USS Bowfin, currently docked at Pearl Harbor. But the exterior of the submarine are props created for the show, presumably made of metal, wood, styrofoam and other building materials. This would explain a less than realistic explosion as captured on film.

John has sabotaged every attempt to leave the island. Logic would state that he would also want the submarine destroyed. Ben promises Jack that he will get him off the island, but he never specifically states that it will be by submarine. It is assumed that the submarine is used to get to and from the island, but this has never been shown. To date, no one has been shown to pilot the submarine. However, someone clearly knows how to operate it because it was used in the attack on Sayid, Jin and Sun in an effort to capture Desmond’s sail boat. Ben claims that the sub is a ruse to satisfy the others into thinking they can leave anytime, which might suggest that it’s only capable of short distance travels, either because it’s not completely operational or can no longer sustain the trip due to some other force.

Of course, what people focus on is the fact that John is seen soaking wet immediately prior to the explosion. This contradicts the actions of John entrance into the sub and loosely suggests that John moved the submarine and blew up something else. Ben effectively thanks John for destroying the submarine, but John may have predicted Ben’s manipulation and decided to fake the submarine’s destruction.

Either way, I believe the submarine is of little use to the survivors or Ben and there is another means off the island, such as a boat or airplane. The Temple, an unseen location where Ben told the remaining Others to go, may have something to do with how the Others go to and from the island.

WHo picked Michael up at 325 is the other means off the Island

Rim, that is the million dollar question right now.

All I am saying is that it is possible Locke didnt blow up the sub. I’m by no means a submarine expert but if you look at the multiple theories on this site Reguarding this topic, the arguments are very convincing for me anyway. Have a good day!

Hey Nickster, Glad you weighed in on this one to defend your thoughts which need NO defending, IMO.

What I would like to know, is what does “box making” have anything to do with this theory, when it has absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Talk about what is irrelevant, and stated in such an over the top exaggerated pontificating, efficious manner, intended to demean!

Completely unnecessary!

good comments nickee, and dab

Nickee,

Don’t take it personally. Everyone has emotional investments into their favorite characters, sub-plots and theories. Some, like me, just don’t want to let go of them and will defend them until proven otherwise.

I wasn’t trying to take sides. I just wanted to clear up why there was a debate regarding that. There is compelling evidence either way.

dabiatchishere,

As for boxmaking comment being relavent, I think it was a not so subtle and sarcastic comment regarding John’s perceived abilities to operate a submarine, which is a topic relevant to this theory.

Some people have little faith in John because prior to the crash:

A) He was a self-proclaimed hunter at some hippy pot growing farm who killed defenseless deer with a gun.

B) He ate alot of tv dinners.

C) He used telephones to talk to phone sex operators.

D) He learned to track the trails of birds and small game.

E) He cried alot about his dad stealing his kidney.

F) He played risk alot.

G) He bought a bunch of knives for his walkabout.

H) He drove a classic 1 engine gasoline-electric VW Beetle.

While some people have tremendous faith in John because after the crash:

A) He was a self-proclaimed hunter who killed a powerfull and aggressive boar with a knife.

B) He ate alot of fruit.

C) He used hallucinogens to talk to the island.

D) He learned to track the trails of people and polar bears.

E) He cried alot about the island not revealing his purpose.

F) He played backgammon alot.

G) He threw a bunch of knives and was able walkabout.

H) He drove a classic 4 engine diesel-electric Balao class WWII US Navy Submarine.

Frankly, I don’t think he’s changed much.

Billy G, lol, I don’t take these threads seriously unless someone is talking about my mother! But I hear what you’re saying. I just personally believe he didn’t blow it up. This debate has been going on here since that particular episode aired and I’m sure it will continue until we find out for sure. I think we can all agree that no one here knows absolutely everything about the characters back stories, only what’s been chosen to be revealed.

dabiatchishere -

“Talk about what is irrelevant, and stated in such an over the top exaggerated pontificating, efficious manner, intended to demean!”

If you took my comment about him working in a box company as demeaning to you or anyone else, I can’t apologize. I can only say that is not my intention. I am just saying that it isnt plausible to me that Locke would know how to drive a submarine. Yes, because he worked in a box company. I am honestly not sure how that is demeaning. I would believe it if he were in the Navy or something. But he had a desk job. Just like a lot of people, myself included. Of course it is possible that he knows how to operate a submarine. But I just think (in my opinion, which may differ from yours) it would be a stretch and just a little “too convenient.” That is all. No harm intended, I am not trying to upset you, I promise. Please dont take my words for more than they are worth. Opinions are just that. Opinions. I have them and you have them, too.

Thank you for NOT misunderstanding my intentions, Billy G. I am not a troll, I am not a rude person and nobody likes being told that. I appreciate that somebody understood.

Locke also worked on a pot farm~didn’t see that coming! Anything is possible. My point is Locke is what, 40 or 50 years old? We’ve seen a few things he did in the past but not everything. But I digress appolobar, perhaps he didn’t blow it up. It just seems to me that he wouldn’t do it BC he knew Ben was manipulating him to. Per alex’s comment. Again, just my Opinion. I certainly didn’t mean to start anything by voicing it. And I think Dab was just trying to take up for me

Nickee - that is a good point you make. Locke did work at a pot farm and that is unexpected. Touchee. I will, however, apologize to you if you felt I was being demeaning, because the comment was directed at your previous comment. I dont mean to be and honestly didnt think I was. But sometimes it is all about perception. I only hope that you can see that I was getting fired up about Lost - not you personally. I somehow think you werent offended but if you were, I am truly sorry.

I ask you this, though. If Locke didnt really blow up the sub, what would be his purpose for keeping it around? We know he doesnt want to leave and he doesnt want anyone else to leave, so what do you think his reasons would be for faking it? I know you said because he knew Ben was trying to manipulate him, but what would be the benefit of faking?

Well that’s a very good question which I can only “theorize” about and won’t pretend to know the answer to . I think he could have faked it for the simple fact that ben wanted it gone. To have an upper hand for once in his life. Or to create an illusion of it being gone but keeping it around as a “fail safe”in case something goes wrong and HE sees fit for someone to leave the island. Just ideas, I really don’t know what would motivate him but I think he’s cagey and is turning into a control freak like Ben!

Point well taken. I guess only time will tell…I still think he blew it up (I am stubborn) but you may be right. Again, my apologies if I came off as rude.

However a polar bear carcass ended up in Tunisia is how the Others are able to travel to and from the island without a sub or boat.

I think Locke blew up the sub because Ben convinced him to do so. If Locke’s story tells us anything its that he’s a guy who wants to be in control and powerful, but is ultimately weak and an easy target for manipulation. Any guy who gets conned by his father 3 times (kidney, safety deposit box, when Locke gets paralyzed) and believes he has a “relationship” with a phone sex operator is rather gullible, self-deluding, and susceptible to manipulation.