Possible cause of visions and dreams in the Island
+12 22 Votes
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By Occam
- Possible cause of visions and dreams in the Island
- Created: Sep 17, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
“As a human being, I am concerned about the illusionary explanations for human consciousness and the future of human existence.” —Dr. Michael Persinger.
— Occam
Michael Persinger, from Laurentian University —Ontario, Canada— has been researching since 1970 the possible effects of an electromagnetic field on human’s brain. His experiments —although not backed-up by the scientific community— could explain why the Losties have visions, “prophetic” dreams and déjà-vu, especially when considered along with false memory syndrome.
Some links providing more information about Persinger and his subjects of study — http://web.ionsys.com/~remedy/Persinger,%20Michael.htm —, temporal lobe lability — http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/T/templobelability.html — and false memory syndrome — http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/F/falsemem.html
Even if Dr. Persinger’s works have not been seconded by any other scientific, there are several connections between Dr. Persinger’s studies and events happening on the Island that make me think they might have inspired the writers.
The sources for this theory can be found following the previous links, but anyway I will highlight what I think is related to the show:
Bioelectromagnetic fields between 1 and 50 nanoTeslas —much less than Earth’s own magnetic field intensity, which is around 2.5 miliTeslas— applied during pregnancy might be involved with sudden infant death because of histological alteration. The Island is known to have a very high EMF, so maybe this huge intensity causes a bigger impact in cells and therefore the foetus —and the pregnant mother— death.
Combined with right hemispheric stimulation, EMF causes the subject to feel “presences”. Some subjects felt these presences were religious beings or deceased people. This made me think of the whispers and also of Christian, Yemi and even Dave.
When the subject tries to “focus” upon the sensed presence, it “moves”. Similar to what happened to Jack with his father vision, Hurley with Dave, and Eko with Yemi.
Subjects with a strong faith reported they would have killed if the “presence” had told them to. This could explain why the Others have no doubt about being the “good guys” and, at the same time, having no trouble with abduction and/or murder.
There is more information that could be somehow related to the show, but I think these are the more strong points.
Credit for this theory should go to a workmate of mine, who suggested the possible connection between EMF and the phenomenon of alien-abduction might be appliable to events in Lost.
As this site says, go nuts!
Key events
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| Jack sees his father on the island | 1.4 | 217 |
Nice theory, although with the Pregnant women I was wondering why only people who became pregnant on the island were affected as the baby would still be subjected to the same Electromagnetic force. Then I remembered Juliet saying how the sperm count of a male is increased on the island, so maybe it has something to do with the sperm, before fertilization takes place. The radiation could then be present in the fetus as it grows, resulting in the death of mother and child.
They should get sperm samples from off the island, and fertilize with the eggs of the island women.
Occam: The following is a comment which I left In DharmaSpy’s recent theory. This may also work into your theory as well!
The frontal lobe (gyrus) which controls voluntary movements. It plays a part in impulse control, judgment, language production problem solving, sexual behaviour, socialization, and spontaneity. It also assists in planning, coordinating, controlling, and executing behaviour. People who have damaged frontal lobes may experience problems with cognitive function, being at times impulsive; impaired in their ability to plan and execute complex sequences of actions.
Now, if you apply that with a condition known as Reduplicative paramnesia, you have a whole new way to look at what’s going on! This condition makes the person believe that they are in another location, with all of the same people, surroundings, etc. They duplicate one setting for another.
In other words, this scenario could play out on “Lost”. Are the characters suffering from these maladies? And, does “the island”, really exist? I thought it interesting. +1
Oh, sweet! I see the “Negative Majority” has showed up to minus you, already! Morons!
Right, Kat! I’d like to whisper something in their ears as well! LOL!!
You go Dabbie! Really like your comment and fighting attitude!
DocOc this is good stuff. Don’t pay any attention to the whispers. Especially if they are telling you to kill someone!
Good work, Occam. I wonder, then, if dissipating the energy by activating the failsafe was something Ben wanted because of the pregnancy issue? Hm…
By the way… was it a known fact that babies conceived off the island were able to come to term? I thought that was something Juliet didn’t know for sure, but wanted to test?
Interesting stuff Occam.
“Subjects with a strong faith reported they would have killed if the “presence” had told them to. This could explain why the Others have no doubt about being the “good guys” and, at the same time, having no trouble with abduction and/or murder.”
Maybe Jacob or Ben have learned how to focus and manipulate the island’s natural EMF emissions to control the others, while our losties are just dealing with it its effects?
I, too, am baffled by the negatives on this one. But then again, I’m certain there are a number of ways this rating system is taken. Many of us, I think, don’t even give negative ratings unless a post is trollish or some such thing. Otherwise we’ll follow the rule: “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.” We might even give a plus to theory we don’t agree with so long as it’s plausible or even just an interesting read. Others, however, will always rate a theory one way or the other, and if they “buy it” they’ll plus and if they don’t they’ll minus, and I think we all have to admit that this very simple method is probably the one intended by the site designer (so the highest rated theories turn out to be the ones that the most users agree with, rather than being the ones that the most users find worthy of reading regardless of its likelihood).
That said… this theory is well stated and plausible, so I can’t imagine a person just dismissing it out of hand. A negative vote does seem rather harsh.
Of course, I think this about a lot of theories that get negative votes these days (and about some that end up on the debunked pile) and so I, also, often wonder if some conspiracy is afoot.
There are a few more of out there that are of like mind Prof.
We should talk.
Yeah kat, but only if I turn up my TV to the point that my neighbors complain. :)
Of course, when I do that, I forget to turn it back down and inevitably a commercial for Buddy’s Carpet comes blasting out.
Great read Occam,
I like the bioelectromagnetic field stuff a lot, & I remember seeing a science documentary where a man kept feeling a spooky & eerie presence that made him feel uneasy at a certain place in his lab, & it turned out, upon full investigation to be magnet-related (from a machine nearby), but more importantly was the vivid description he gave of the ‘feelings’ this presence gave him, so I agree, your post is very interesting. I would ask though, with the sense-vison/moving thing, Kate focused and actually touched the Horse that she had envisioned when she was with Sawyer, so I wonder why that was different? Perhaps because Sawyer also saw it? I just don’t know…. I am assuming from memory that the horse was a vison and not from the flame? +1
solarchap, I watched a documentary on hypnotism and the power of suggestion and was amazed at the extent peoples’ senses could be manipulated.
http://www.tv-links.co.uk/listings/9/4888
I don’t know very much about electromagnetism or the physiological processes involved in carrying a baby or being one but…does this explain why the mothers die? I also wonder about the time period involved: is it an immediate death from blood loss for example or wasting away from that mysterious disease? Maybe only pregnant women have to take those shots, the only person we have seen the Others giving the shots to is Claire (I think). I guess that doesn’t explain why Rousseau’s crewmates got sick or why the shots are regularly dropped to the hatch (I don’t think the hatch would be a good environment for pregnant volunteers), but maybe the cause of the disease, if it is an organism, mutated since she got there or she is lying or crazy from solitude. Maybe some are able to fight the disease off, like Danielle and the Others, and they figured out a vaccine (Parallel with Mr. Eko’s dirty deeds back home?). But the fact that there was a disease is somewhat corroborated by the Others (Ben as prisoner) although they could be lying as always…anyway, this is my first time posting anything. It’s a proud moment for me.
Guys, sorry for the delay on checking here. Just a quick note about the minuses: it’s true it would be nice if they came with an explanation, but I learned to post just for the sake of it and not because what you say is “rewarded”. People taking time to ponder what I said, even to disagree with it, is reward enough.
Psych: I didn’t find —yet— any details in Dr. Persinger’s experiments, other than the provided by the links above. They just mention the effects of what he calls a “Biomagnetic field” applied during “prenatal development” [sic], but without a clue about the timeframe in which they were applied. So that may be wrong, of course, but it has at least a strong connection with what is happening in the Island.
dab: I wondered that, too. But if the Island does not exists, what would be the source for such a high EMF? I wouldn’t like an outcome like that of a sci-fi short tale —I don’t remember title or author, sorry— in which aliens abducted the whole passage of planes during flight, left corpses in their places and let the plane crash, making experiments with the passengers… I think we could get so far as to wonder whether any event in the Island is real —but then again, the producers said something about this, didn’t they? That’s the only reason why I restricted the “fantasy” to what it is obviously not real: dreams and visions. I have to gather some information about Reduplicative paramnesia, although you say it’s related to the frontal lobe and Persinger focused his experiments on temporal lobes. Temporal, like in “temples” ;-)
Prof: Interesting take, yours. Following it, should that mean Sun’s pregnancy would not be “cursed”? About the fact that babies conceived off-Island weren’t cursed, my guess is that Juliet didn’t have confirmation until Claire’s pregnancy came to term without problems. That must be the only reason why the Others were so eager to get hold of her, to be able to check what difference made Aaron being conceived outside the Island.
shammers: In fact, I think Jacob is a product of the EMF effect over Ben, first, and then over Locke. I know Locke seemed to think Ben was cracked up, but you know how this guy is: one moment he thinks something is plainly absurd, next minute believes it strongly and curses himself for his faulty faith…
mrs: I pay no attention to any whispers, except those that tell me to kiss somebody. Voluntaries? }:-) —sorry, boys, I’m such an old-fashioned guy and I would only kiss girls.
Keep going nuts, crew. That’s what makes this site a great one.
And you should be proud Bakunin. :) Good questions.
I think the x-rays Juliet was shown by Richard may be a clue as to why the mothers die.
As for the disease and quarantine, I think it has been determined, or at least heavily hinted at that, the it was a hoax.
Rousseau was and is off her rocker and was probably drugged and brainwashed in the same fashion Claire was.
solarchap: I thought the horse was a vision, too. There can be two explanations: one you posed it yourself —the horse is one of the Flame’s and Kate just linked it to his flashback. The other is hinted by shammers: all the senses, not just the vision, were affected. That would explain also how Dave can slap Hurley: he was so into the hallucination that his other senses were affected and felt the slap.
Bakunin: There’s materian in what I found about Dr. Persinger’s experiments dealing with “limbic seizures” —alteration of sense of reality— which involved chemicals besides EMF. He treated rats with something called “ketamine”, which made then behave as any other normal rat, but they were far more sensitive to weak EMF that would not affect any normal individue. I’m suspecting the shots have something to do with that “ketamine” or at least try to get the same results: being more able to be affected to the EMF, or increasing its effects. About Rousseau’s team sickness, we only have her word for it. And she’s crazy… or a really good actress. Or maybe both. And, for a first post, it was a good one. Keep the great work!
Aaaaand shammers beat me at answering! Thanks, brutha.
Oh, I forgot to say I will probably be off the site for a couple of days, so don’t take it as if I don’t want to answer any more comments! G’nite y’all.
Right, kat. Ben knew. But did Juliet? Did any of the Others know that Alex was Danielle’s daughter?
Either way, it seems as though Claire’s and Danielle’s pregnancies were extremely advanced before landing on the island, so they only provide very special cases. One would need to find out if someone in her first trimester, say, would show any problems after landing on the island.
You’re right, Occam… by the reasoning I’m spinning off of your theory, Sun isn’t really in danger.
Later DocOc.
if you build it they will come
nice one occam
by the way how`s the beer?
kat, I think that scene was in “Maternity Leave”. Alex said it when she was helping Claire escape.
It is possible that Juliet was one of the people in scrubs, but only Ethan can be confirmed.
What was strange about that scene was Ethan turning to look from the room and down the hall in their direction at the same time Claire and Alex hanging halfway out the door to see if the coast was clear.
He had to have seen them. It makes me wonder if the whole thing wasn’t planned or if we are seeing things through the eyes of a drugged up Claire.
Of course this is all come from my old geezer of a memory and so could be incorrect. :)
Occ I like it I’ve read some articles related to Persinger and some of his findings.( I had a friend that lived near power lines as a kid, and he swore up and down that the cornfield be hind his house was haunted. Now he’s a parapsychologist.) I don’t know if it explains LOST(but I like it) It definitely describes him. +1
This would be a good explanation for the pregnancy issues Occam. I asked about this possibility in xiv’s Pregnancy issues post. Good that it would also explain the other happenings,i just wonder if the public would buy it ?
Sham…I agree that maybe the escape was staged for Claire..
I think the others manipulated Alex or else shes in on it with them.
Suns baby was conceived on island(if Juliet told the truth and the baby is Jins) so would be a danger.Was also conceived before the failsafe key was turned so would def be in danger.
If Kate has conceived it would be off island(Alcatraz) and after the failsafe key was turned.
This would be a good experiment for the others with the two cases.
I dont understand why Suns pregnancy isnt in danger.+1 Occam : )
Occam: Great work as always and a very interesting post! +1
Great comments all, wish I had gotten in earlier. :-(
wtf: I tend to agree with your last comment, after reading through everything, I still don’t understand how Sun could be safe. But Kate and Sawyer did the deed on island as well as off so she still could be in danger.
Prof: I asked a question a while back about the “vision of the horse” and you replied that the horse was real and not a vision.
Bakunin: Sorry, forgot to tell you I agree with Sham. You definitely should be proud!
Re: Sun being safe… y’all are probably right… and, actually, I’m not sold on the notion that it’s Jin’s kid.
Annie: Correct… I tend to think the horse Kate and Sawyer saw was escaped from the Others. We know they had horses (we saw one at the Flame). I also think it’s the same horse Kate experienced before, brought there, like Kate, through the workings of synchronicity.
Sham: “I think the x-rays Juliet was shown by Richard may be a clue as to why the mothers die”
I agree.
Great post Doc.
@nino: I found your stash, but I only took one…dude i got thirsty…it will tide me over until the next CF;-)
Thanks Prof, thought I had lost it for a minute there!
And I agree, I’m not so sure the baby is Jin’s either.
Shams, thanks for the link, that was a very cool programme. Also I can’t believe a tv-links prog gave me no hassle & streamed beautifully, makes a change. You are so right too about the ‘accelerated age-ing’ womb x-ray, & it’s also interesting to wonder whether Richard showed them to Juliette off his own back? or more likely that Ben got him to, as he’s the one with the pregnancy obcession.
Occers, I really like, Nae (no horse pun intended!) love! the idea of a hallucination that’s so real you feel it slap you in the chops! and that would of course explain Dave & the horse, so all round, I’d say you gave a jolly good answer indeed!
Every day on this site, some new wealth of information to try to digest i.e. Persinger & the whole paranormal stuff! ……I’m still struggling with my own telomere theory research, Jedi’s i-ching/64 theory & trying to tie that in with the genetic code’s 64 coding possibilites, then days delving into Tesla thanks to PG, & now electromagneticfield phenomenena!!!
By the time LOST has ended, all of us users on this site are sure going to be a lot more smarter & knowledgable, well either that……. or we’ll all be in those straightjackets that Kat mentions!
Thank goodness for ProfO’s Vids which bring the light entertainment back, in times of LOST mental overload!
coming in late. Just to clarify….The picture of the uterus was not an xray but either an ultrasound or MRI. An xray wouldn’t show soft tissue like that.
If your interested in Temporal lobe pathology, you might consider looking up “temporal lobe personality” or “temporal lobe epilepsy”. You may also consider looking up V.S. Ramachandran. Fascinating stuff. It is through pathology that we actually start to see how our brains actually work.
dococ great theory, great comments, nasty whispers. Great comment shell, you rock.
Wow, great, great theory and comments. I like the idea that the problem may not be the conception taking place on the island exactly—but that the sperm of men on the island being affected is causing the problem. One implication of that might be that when Sawyer was “conned” with the supposed implant, I wonder if they were really giving him something to counteract radiation effects on sperm. If so, Sun & Jin might be the “control.”
+1 from me dood ,great theory I like it alot and will comment further once I have done a little research into this.
Sorry for all the blind -1ers on the site don;t take it personally to the anonymous -1ers, really is it necessary every time someone posts an intelligent theory, come on guys get inlvolved say why you -1.