Adam’s Stones: Urim & Thummim
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By Bakunin
- Adam’s Stones: Urim & Thummim
- Created: Sep 17, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
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Also put the Urim and the Thummim in the breastpiece, so they may be over Aaron’s heart whenever he enters the presence of the LORD. Thus Aaron will always bear the means of making decisions for the Israelites over his heart before the LORD. -Exodus 28:30, NIV Bible
— Bakunin
So we have’nt seen much about Adam and Eve or the caves for awhile. I was thinking today about a book I had read a long time ago, ‘The Alchemist,’ by Paulo Coehlo. In it, two stones or jewels are used to make decisions, one white and one black; they are kept in a leather satchel thing and when one is thinking of a decision that one wants spiritual guidance on, one pulls a rock from the bag without looking. Black means yes, white means no.
There is also a wikipedia article on them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thummim Here are some highlights- -A passage - 1 Samuel 14:41 - in the Books of Samuel is regarded by biblical scholars as key to understanding the Urim and Thummim[11]; the passage describes an attempt to identify a sinner via divination, by repeatedly splitting the people into two groups and identifying which group contains the sinner. -Scholars think they were objects put into some sort of pouch within it, and then, while out of view, one (or one side, if the Urim and Thummim was a single object) was chosen by touch and withdrawn or thrown out. -Also, two arrow shafts (without heads or feathers), on one of which was written command and the other prohibition or similar, were kept in a container and used similarly, and stored in the Kaaba at Mecca (arrow station?) There’s more interesting stuff at wikipedia and nice ‘See Also’s and References.So, if we ever see these stones again, which I believe we will (Roger Linus’ minibus was MIA for a whole season, wasn’t it?), we have some context and maybe an idea of what will happen. The first quote I have above from wikipedia regarding deciding who was a sinner and who wasn’t reminded me of Ben’s and others’ incessant “We’re the good guys” claims. Perhaps Adam and Eve were renegade Others and stole the stones. I think I’ve read somewhere on here about how we’ll be meeting new characters, possibly a third group will be emerging…are the Others also fighting them? The armed guard outside of Karl’s whatever room seemed unnecessary when I thought about it: a code, or something Alex can’t pick would suffice. Maybe Karl and the building’s other contents were guarded from other Others. Back to my theory, the Others are currently heading to a temple, a trip which will take them another three or four months if they make it in the first episode. Urim and Thummim were supposedly stuck in the breast plate of the highest priest of some important temple, and people had to go to the temple to ask questions. The questions also had to be simple yes/no, of course, and the questions had to have the good of the whole community in mind. So maybe after Ben has been thrown off by recent events (island giving him the cold shoulder, rising dissent in his people, arrowed and imprisoned and beaten, submarine blowed up which I don’t think is best for him in the end, his superiority threatened by Locke) and he needs to get some clear answers to get back on track and get confidence and trust restored. With the stones being gone, I don’t know how this will happen, but maybe they retrieved them and will show this in a flashback (An Ethan flashback would be interesting but difficult since he’s dead). And there’s the whole black/motif, the only thing I want to say about that is that usually white is associated with positives (yes) and black with negatives (no). With the Urim and Thummim it is reversed. Perhaps an allusion to the idea of the Others being good and Dharma and the survivors relatively not good. I just hope we see those stones again as they seemed to be way too interesting to be forgotten about, not to mention Adam and Eve. I really hope they didn’t just crash onto the island like it seems half the people on the island did.
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ben | Benjamin Linus | 3.20, 4.9, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1581 |
| Jack | Jack Shephard | 1.1, 1.5, 2.11, 1.11, 1.16, 1.20, 3.9, 3.22, 3.1, 4.10, 4.12, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1376 |
| John | John Locke | 3.3, 2.17, 1.4, 1.19, 3.13, 3.19, 4.11, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1137 |
| Kate | Katherine “Kate” Austen | 3.6, 1.2, 1.3, 2.9, 1.12, 1.16, 1.22, 3.15, 4.4, 4.12 | 678 |
Key events
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| “Adam” and “Eve” are discovered | 1.6 | 148 |
Key locations
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| The Caves | 1.7, 1.5, 1.6, 2.1, 2.2 | 157 |
I’m not sure that the stones in LOST fit with my understanding of what the Urim and Thummim were. However, the novel you cite sounds interesting. And I do think the stones will be very important later.
Welcome, Bakunin! Brilliant! Awesome theory! I had never thought about this aspect before, however it is entirely plausible. Nice work! +1
Thank you, Dab. I wanted to add that, after having read other theories regarding this, some sharp-eyed poster caught that Jack took the stones and put them in his pocket. Also, the drop quote I used mentions Aaron, which was a complete coincidence. Maybe it points to Aaron coming into the forefront of things soon, a leader or otherwise very important.
I love the idea of light/dark or yin/yang. I like the way you tied Ben and the Others trek to the Temple to the story of the U & T with the stones being related to the temple. I also think the stones will be important in the show to come. nice theory and welcome
Hi Bakunin! Very Interesting!
not being at home i dont have access to that episode. did Jack give a cause of death? i dont remember them being in dharma attire. which brings up the question, how were they not being tracked down by dharma or the natives? why did they pass away by themselves in the caves?
Well…all I can remember is that Jack says they have been dead a long time, I think, or maybe he’s wrong because of the tropical conditions on the island (which he admits to). But that might add to the knowledge base for the event timeline on the island. As to their not being tracked down, perhaps they were, we don’t know how long they stayed in the caves, and no survivor mentions any sign of permanent residency. Maybe they decided on staying in the caves because they thought it was safe, for the same reasons Jack wants everyone to stay there. I do not know why they died, or why in that spot…maybe they were killed, as the Others killed Dharma and did not bury them (just open pits). Okay, sorry for continually posting on my own observation and thanks for reading.
munchkin: The episode is from quite some time ago! The implication of the corpses being old, leads you to believe it was prior to “Dharma”, although I am not sure.
Jack concludes they died of natural causes… he suggests they were deliberately interred there (meaning they were survived by others).
Note that later when John finds a corpse dressed as a priest he gives a different speculation as to how quickly clothing degrades. I’m not sure who’s really the expert on such things, John or Jack.
You’re right, Prof. I guess I just don’t trust Jack’s opinion on this: no autopsy, he looks at them for a short while, doesn’t look at their entire bodies…i appreciate your comment, most definitely. I’m gonna stop posting here now, honest.
Heh… Bakunin… no need to stop. We want to hear your thoughts as you continue to develop them, my friend.
I wanted to say something about the notion that Jack pocketed the stones… in my recollection of the scene, it isn’t obvious that Jack does this. But it’s my opinion that he did.
Heh… posting at the same time kat did… I concur with her.
Heya Bakunin—very cool screen name by the way—those are extrememly interesting connections. Oh, and did you mean you were just not going to keep commenting on your own post?—’cause actually I think that can be useful to do—it’s a conversation, so no reason not to chime in back to something someone else has said.
I think Jacks says the clothing degradation indicates at least 40 years have gone by—1960s then? Dharma was on the island by then I think.
This does remind me of a thought I had a long time ago that the original island inhabitants might be one of the lost tribes of Israel. Also thinking of the stones as divination tools—kat mentioned ley lines in a comment sometime last week. Aren’t places where ley lines intersect supposed to be associated with divination?
Bakunin: Welcome and very interesting first theory! I am very intrigued by why Jack took the stones, always have been. People here are probably tired of hearing me say that, in fact!
But, please keep posting theories and commenting. That is what it’s all about. We want your feedback as much as you want ours.
+1 for the first of hopefully many good theories!
Bakunin,
Adam’s stones, that made me laugh. As in, “that guy, Adam, sure has stones.” Okay, I know, it’s late.
I like the idea of the stones representing a choice of yes or no, rather than good or evil. +1
Bakunin, welcome,
I have to agree with Prof, the stones do not match my very limited understanding of what the Urim and the Thummim were. It is my understanding they were objects that were fit into the Jewish High Priest’s (Aaron was the first) garment, and could be used for decision making. It is my understanding that God spoke to the Israelites through the U and T ( I suppose their understanding was the God was in control of the outcome). It is my understanding that they were later placed in the Ark of the Covenant.
happy posting
Thanksfor the welcomes and feedback, everyone. Alice, I tried to come up with a post title that would convey that meaning but failed…Anyway, I have another take on the U & T significance from the feedback: maybe they have something to do with the survivor’s accepting or rejecting the island, saying yes or no to staying there or being happy there. Several episodes have centered around this, with Jack, Bernard, and Jin among those confronted with the decision, usually by others.