The Big Dipper Debate
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By fivestades
- The Big Dipper Debate
- Created: Oct 30, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 13, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
Whilst geekily browsing lostpedia I found this:
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:BigDipper.jpg
This is a great fan observation relating to the shot in ‘The long Con’ of the big dipper/plough star constellation combined with the numbers as plotted on a 7x6 grid. The grid relates because Leonard was seen playing connect four (7x6 grid) whilst chanting the numbers. As you can see, laying the numbers on the grid and highlighting them provides a near perfect representation of the big dipper as represented in the lost shot.
The first thing I noticed about the lost image is that the constellation is mirrored/backwards. I have considered things like production errors, optical glass reversal but after some research I found this:
“Five of the stars of the Big Dipper are at the core of the Ursa Major Moving Group. The two at the ends, Dubhe and Alkaid, are not part of the swarm, and are moving in the opposite direction. Relative to the central five, they are moving down and to the right in the map. This will slowly change the Dipper’s shape, with the bowl opening up and the handle becoming more bent. In 50,000 years the Dipper will no longer exist as we know it, but be re-formed into a new Dipper facing the opposite way. The stars Alkaid to Phecda will then constitute the bowl, while Phecda, Merak, and Dubhe will be the handle.”
The second thing is that the sixth star mizar is absent.
Based on the prior statement that the dipper will reverse in the future could the missing star have expired at that point? Could this explosion be the end of the word as we know it? Is the island post explosion remains?
I plotted out the number grid against the dipper we see today (numbers backwards). When including the missing star Mizar it appears to be represented by the number 30…….missing number, changing numbers?
Obviously we have six numbers closely representing six stars of the inverted dipper but by our current dipper we should have seven.
I would love to continue into an amazing theory of how this ties in, but I really can’t think! Help! I can aimlessly ramble though
In an earlier theory I have speculated that we already have evidence of the island possessing futuristic artefacts i.e smoke monster and the four toed statue, 50,000 years sounds reasonable for evolution to strip humans of the little toe and technology to have advanced to such a point that a smoke cloud can read your mind. I know the ‘time travel’ aspect of lost is debunked, so I’ll leave that, for now.
I have also speculated that the numbers are a ‘calling card’ to the island. I am no solar orientation expert but is it possible that the numbers are a coded address, the stars at a certain time can lead to the island, by using the 7x6 grid as a reference. The numbers etched on the hatch are like a post code for delivery.
This sounds ridiculous and far too complicated but If you take the birth origin of the surviving losties and plot (one plot per country) them on the world map, as far as I can tell you have 7 countries. Starting with the US-Brazil(Paulo)-UK-Nigeria-Iraq-South Korea-Australia……It more or less gives the inverted dipper, try it. Thus the countries represent the numbers. Almost certainly overkill on the dipper idea?
Thanks
Rogers_Head rightly pointed out that the backwards dipper is seen in “Special” S01 not “The Long Con”
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2.13 | The Long Con | 2-8-2006 | Sawyer | 82 |
Key events
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| Four Toed Statue | 189 |
Fivestades please do feel free to aimlessly ramble. I am enjoying your ramblings - they are keeping me from the real business of work, lol.
Well remembered Kat and btw Five you also get a +1 from me. That picture is pretty mind blowing. Could it really be that simple? You know I have this feeling that when the end comes we are all going to be amazed at the simplicity of it all yet it will be something we just hadn’t thought of before.
Pretty good for “just rambling”. I know next to nothing about astrology but your theory makes a good point for those who think the island is in the future.
Wow, five—awesome theory. I think it fits with the theory kat just recently posted about the axis mundi in a couple of ways—disturbance in the cosmos equates with disturbance in human gestation (macro and microcosm—as above so below). And the fact that polaris is part of the little dipper (ursus major and minor—polar bears and teddy bears). Finally, as kat mentioned above, Claire’s tie-in to astrology and the “Catch a Falling Star” song. If we go back to the cosmology/human life parallel and perhaps think of Aaron as the missing star (Mizar?) so somehow Aaron’s life is centrally tied to averting the apocalypse? http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/jun/10/rise-aaron/
Yeah the dipper link surprised me, it does match too well. The number grid is nothing special as far as I know, just 1-42 in a 7x6 form, but you are right kat, I wonder if it does represent a calendar? Great theory link too, the stars are definitely significant to future plot. Lol Mrs glad my ramblings provide distraction
Jaz, I agree that Aaron could represent the missing star/number. His birth origin location (if we know where) could be plotted on the google earth map I mentioned completing the dipper?
This is pretty cool. I’ve always felt that the numbers have a very simple origin, and the observation of Leonard playing Connect4 does it for me. That brings Hurley’s stay in the mental facility into a new light, doesn’t it?
Lots of possibilities to ponder… +1
Hey 5! - Something I have mentioned before is the fact that there is a spiral galaxy “inside” of the big dipper named “M108”.
http://www.lost-theories.com/theories/2007/aug/14/spiral-galaxy-m108-inside-cons/
The “M” stands for “Messier”. The Messier objects are a set of astronomical objects catalogued by Charles Messier in his catalogue of Nebulae and Star Clusters.
And remember that Carl told Sawyer and Kate that he and Alex liked to look at stars and constellations. He named one of them Theodore-Teddy, which I believe is a reference to Ursa Major. Ursa Major is the constellation associated with the big dipper as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UrsaMajorconstellationdetailmap.PNG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_108
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dipper
Sorry Kat, I see you mentioned the Ursa Major thing. :)
I’m beginning to like the astrology connections more and more. I had completely forgotten about Karl’s comments. I’d be interested to see how one would connect this theory to the “Casimir Island” theories….if it’s even possible, that is.
I like it +1
Locke_Block - what an excellent name!
@ Kat honey we love you right back.
Very interesting read! +1
Absolute Bullsh*t
Seriously didn’t you say you wanted to come back as a new person who actually wanted to contribute to this site? Why do we even bother?!
five, what an absolutely brilliant find! +1
I love astrology and as the others have stated this works in so perfectly with Claire. I’ve been waiting for Claire to make a connection with the stars. This could be it!
Great links and comment from almost everyone. :-)
i love this so much,thankyou.+1…fcf you need to turn that negative to a positive.
just another “Mizar” connection I found: “The Mizar project started around 1973 as an attempt to reconstruct mathematical vernacular in a computer-oriented environment.” Could connect with the numbers?
I believe that the numbers are related to a mathematical “doomsday” formula which is part of the mythology of LOST.
There seems to be no logical reason why the numbers, which must represent Earthly conditions, environment, technology, politics, or whatever, would be correlated to stars. Isn’t that just astrology?
As for the dipper reversing, uhm….not likely. Those stars are not on a plane that can be flipped. They occupy three dimensions and are, in fact, at vastly different distances from Earth. The only way to “reverse” the constellation would be to move earth to almost the other side of the galaxy. I can’t see that being the answer to the riddles we encounter.
I have argued on other people’s theories, and I continue to argue, that we now have a handle on the numbers. The producers, I’m sure, get off on dropping the numbers here and there to shock us, surprise us, or delight us, but beyond that, turning the numbers sixteen different ways, rearranging them, graphing them, turning them into star charts, astrological charts, numerology charts, adding them, squaring them, stirring, baking, sauteeing them, or trying to make sense of them as latitude and longitude is wrongheaded,
Succinctly: it appears to be canon that the numbers are related to a doomsday equation. There is no logic whatsoever in trying to make those numbers dance to the stars.
You obviously have intelligence and imagination (as do many other theorists). I would just like to see us as a group aiming our theories at areas that do NOT rely on astrology, numerology, or magic.
Hi Jaz, nice find on the Mizar link…….the date is interesting, my little brain can’t make more of it though!
Wills Dad…..nice rant, I agree that the connect four-dipper thing takes the numbers to a seemingly improbable route but just one point-
To see the dipper in reverse we would not need to be “the other side of the galaxy”. 2 of the 7 stars are moving in the opposite direction to the other 5, this means that from Planet Earth the constellation will appear to reverse in about 50,000 years. In between now and then the dipper will look completely different, but come to resemble the dipper again but in a different star order. (Possibly as the dipper looks in ‘the Long Con’) So I say it is not so much astrology, but astronomically predicted based on movement so far. So the reversal of the dipper is not fan created “magic”.
I prefer umbrella theories myself, but stumbling upon the minor detail that the numbers perfectly fit a connect-4 grid, which Leonard was playing whilst chanting the numbers then when plotted create the reversed big dipper which is then seen in ‘the long con’………seemed too juicy not to post. Logical or not.
The big dipper in connect 4?
Wait, I think I saw a picture of Kate in the grilled cheese sandwich that Jack ate in the cage!
Excellent post! Considering every element of LOST is crucial - as is every element of any classic mystery. The number-repeating guy, to connect four, to hurley is brilliant. Although, I still support the time-travel theories. And it seems to me that any possible connection with great balls of fire millions of light years away would support them too. How have they been debunked?
http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/jun/20/island-location/ I posted this quite some time ago and it is based on the Big Dipper as well…
Wow did you stretch this out to the point of making me vomit…. I love it! LoL. What the hell made you think of the country plotting thing anyway? At any rate, wonderful. +1
five - question for you: are you sure that ‘The Long Con” was the episode that this constellation appeared in? The reason I ask is I just watched “Special” from Season 1 and the same constellation is there right after Michael and Locke save Walt from the polar bear. Is it in both episodes? Funny that Ursa means bear and they show that constellation right after the bear scene… What does it all mean!?! Nice post. +1
Rogers_Head you are right it is from ‘special’. Thanks for letting me know. Yeah it is quite crazy that it comes after the bear scene. The backwards dipper is so clear, it has to be significant.
JWLOST “Wow did you stretch this out to the point of making me vomit” Ha Ha Ha I feel totally that the dippers visibility is important as you said in your post. As for the country plotting, I’m not sure, guess I had too much time on my hands that week. But it does work! Did you try it?
Amazing post, I like the way you think! Obviously after the most recent episode we know that Aaron is going to play a major part in the outcome of the show. +1!