LOST-Theories.com

The genius of your theory is its brevity.

Well done. Only… I’m not exactly certain how Schrodinger’s Cat figures in. As you know, in that particular thought experiment it is critical that the cat’s fate is tied to the probability of radioactive decay. That is, the macro-world of the cat is bound to the micro-world of the sub-atomic physics. In truth, only the particles can exist in two states, not the cat, but because of how the experiment has been designed, the quantum weirdness is allowed to encapsulate the cat, at least to our own perceptions. Furthermore, as soon as anyone opens the box to check on the cat, the cat is no longer simultaneously dead and alive, but only one or the other.

How is entering a wormhole really the same kind of thing? How is the macro-word of the plane tied to the micro-world of sub-atomic physics in a similar manner? And what of the observers? Who are they and how will they impact which reality actually comes to pass? Now, I realize that some believe that when the cat is observed then two realities come to be, one that continues on with the cat alive and the other that continues on with the cat dead. That’s fine, but how would anyone travel between two such realities, even in your conception of things?

Excellent post, this is the most likely of all of the theories I’ve read. I too had been thinking that Smokey was a visual representation of the universe “correcting itself” between timelines. One thing you don’t mention which I believe is a possibility is that there are multiple teams fighting for control of the timeline — I’m not sure how this would work or what it would even mean, though…

ProfOzone, I think you might be taking Schrodinger’s Cat too literally so far as it applies to Hollywood writers. Trust me, writers are more interested in the philosophical and paradoxical questions that arise from scientific questions more than the actual science itself. I don’t suggest that the survivors have traveled to the sub-atomic world nor are governed by its quantum physics. I understand the Observer Paradox you refer to, and yes the cat is either dead or alive when the box is opened, a state undetermined until it is observed. However, to the writer, the dilemma is compelling and worthy of borrowing and applying to the time travel concept. For example, you and I know that entanglement only applies to states of a sub-atomic particle. Yet the writers may like the concept to the degree that they imagine the Locke in the time-space bubble “entangled” with the Locke of the contempory past… thus he “shares” the state of not being paralyzed. Prof, to grasp Lost, you must borrow closely from the science while still appeal to the writer. Lost is a story of time travel, as I have described it. The fundamental question is, Can the survivors return to the present in which they are dead?

Oh, also Mikhail pointed out that the Others have been on the Island for “…a long time. A very long time”. Perhaps the present timeline has moved farther ahead than we think. Sayid noted that he had never seen such advanced technology as he finds in Naomi’s satellite phone.

One question — when Desmond turned the failsafe key and Door #2 began running on a parallel timeline, are Door #1 and Door #2 still connected? Can the Others still travel between their timeline and the one in the present even after the destruction of the Swan station?

Dez, maybe it has been longer than I thought. I think that travel between the two doors is still possible. After all, Locke’s dad just showed up. The interesting thing is that Door #2 has now traveled past the point of its activation, implications unknown. Also, communication was cut, according to Ben.

To me, the bigger question is why was Ben, and all of the Others, so unconcerned about pressing the button? After all, it’s not like they were huddled around the button, making sure it was always pushed. That makes me believe that travel between the two is still possible, and I believe we will witness Locke do just that. We’ll see!

Remember the cable Sayid and Hurley found on the beach? I bet if you followed it out into the sea, it would run directly into the wormhole and thus to door #1. That is how they’re able to receive a feed from the future timeline in the past at door #2. Of course for this to be true they would probably need another wormhole for people to pass through, unless they use the sub for that and it goes the same place that the cable does.

Or maybe they’re all just in purgatory. Or an insane asylum.

Um… OK. I don’t presume to know how any Hollywood writer thinks, much less any LOST writer. As a writer myself I certainly understand, though, taking a concept in science and applying it in a somewhat fanciful way to a given story, but… To me, the rest of your theory seemed to imply that in other areas of consideration the writers were being fairly precise about the science behind the story. The license taken with the Schrodinger’s Cat reference seemed a bit out of place.

But… again… my experience as a writer doesn’t really cover writing for television, so… I’m willing to take your word for it.

Prof, I’ll agree with you I may take the Cat for too far a walk. I think “fairly precise” is the perfect description for the writers’ application of science. After all, any persistent wormhole through which a man could travel would likely require more energy than exists in the universe, so you have to start with suspending that minor detail. Thanks for the posts, Steve

Does divergent timelines make Schrodinger’s Cat any easier to accept (as well as the dual state of 815 and it’s passengers)? Could the event that occured when desmond was late with the button have splintered off a duplicate universe, where the losties survived but in the original timeline they didn’t? I would feel cheated if this was the direction of the story but it is one possibility.

I’m not sure what you mean by resetting the clock on door #2. Does it jump 108 minutes back in time? And if so wouldn’t the previous 108 minutes be lost or relived over and over? As you have illustrated very well traveling back in time is dangerous on many levels. Everytime you go back the likelyhood is that you will screw something up that has wider implications than expected.

I would think the way to seperate the 2 doors would be to cause one of the doors to move as close to the speed of light as possible. This door would lag behind the other door moving through time at a regular rate and the spread betwen the 2 would grow over time.

If the island is being held in the past relative to the rest of the world, I wonder if around 108+ minutes after the worm hole was opened the incident occured. Possibly destroying the island and the door. Dharma could of then sent instructions and equipment back prior to the incident but after the work hole was open of course, to keep the island from reaching the incident and thus preserving the island in a 108 minute window.

I don’t think they will go the direction of alternate universes, I think the “bubble” is as far as they will go. That at least keeps the story in this universe, and will help keep the audience when the truth is revealed.

What did happen when Desmond turned the key? Here is a brain teaser:

Imagine Doors #1 and #2 were activated, connected at the same time, T=0. They travel through time together, for 108.1 minutes, just over the maximum length of time that Door #2 can “rewind”. At T+108.2 minutes, Door #1 continues into the future while Door #2 rewinds to T+0.1. Now the interesting thing is that as far as Door #2 is concerned, both it and Door #1 are at T+0.1, because that was the condition at T+0.1. As long as Door #2 keeps itself within that 108 minutes, Door #1 is “beside” it in terms of time. Meanwhile, in the present timeline, Door #1 is actually proceeding to T+500, T+10,000 and so on. The effect is that the distance of the wormhole connecting the 2 doors is “short” so long as Door #2 remains in that window of 108 minutes. Should Door #2 pass the moment of separation at T+108.1, it “jumps tracks” so to speak and the length of the wormhole increases dramatically to whatever the time shift is between the two doors. Surely this requires an adjustment to maintain the connection, at least.

Could the failsafe key trigger that critical adjustment? Or else the connection between the two breaks entirely?

If this is the case, why does Ben react so mildly when the anomoly occurs? Steve

To answer one question, the “resetting” of the clock of Door #2 is relative to the outside world/timeline. Those within the “bubble” would experience nothing but pushing a button. It is like theories of interstellar space travel, in which we know you cannot exceed the speed of light, but if you could encapsulate yourself in a bubble within space-time, that bubble of space-time could itself move faster than the speed of light, as happened at the beginning of the universe. Steve

Great! but if in the past the island was there, let’s hope it is still there also 20 years later, so when they look for the plane in the original timeline they sould find it on an island, not in a trench 4 km deep… So you must be saying the plane got also “moved” when traveling to the past…hmmm…doesn’t sound that well!!

Oh yes, like the old example of 2 twins. One twin stays on earth and the other travels through space near the speed of light. Time feels normal to both of them but when the twin returns to earth his brother is much older. In the same way the losties feel time moving forward normally inside the islands bubble while the reset is changing their time relative to the main space time (present).

I’m not sure if this is a spoiler. I forget where I read it. So stop now just to be safe…. ok… look away… :-) I read a description of Desmonds girlfriend showing up at the coords where the anomily occured, and there is just water and the island isn’t there. Seemed pretty lame when I read it but this makes it a bit more plausable.

Another interesting note is that when Locke is talking to Ben about blowing up the sub. Ben says something to the effect that some of his people are not ready yet to make a full commitiment and the sub gives them the illusion that they can actually leave. When juliet goes to the island she takes the drug (are they in the dharma office) and then the next we see she wakes up in the sub already attached to the dock. I wonder if the door on the island is under water (Hydra station?) and the sub just goes from the dock to the door. Less likely would be the door is elsewhere and they carried her down the pier, and put her in the sub before she awoke.

I am very, very impressed, very well thought out indeed, you must keep us all informed with any of your other theories (providing they are as clever as this one)

OMG, how can I say this? I think you just solved LOST!!!! This is the absolute greatest theory I have ever read. All that needs explaining now is smokey and the 4 toed statue. amazing. Thanks for ruining the show for me. I have no reason to watch the next two seasons because I know the secret of the island now. jk

And i don’t see way dying in the past would be less controversial than having babies in the past, yet we see people die. Can you answer this critics?

You said it, time travel is a paradox. If you go back, then you’d directly change the past, inducing a new future. That’s why most physicists say that time travel is impossible. But I have to agree that there is some kind of time problem in the show, if not why would they put this hidden ‘only fools are lost in time and space’ thing?

I hate all the time travel therioes. I think the creators are going to debunk them in the 4th season. I just needed to say that. Now I want to point to the holes in your theory. If the others travel between door one and two and they know about the paradoxes of time travel, why the hell would they bother with a fertility doctor? Yhey would know that it is an impossiblity for women to get pregnant and not even try. Why wouldn’t they just let the women that want babies leave the island and work on the project from behind door #1 in the future? Also you said that the others take the children to avoid the possiblity of them dying in the past as not to create a castastrophy in the future. This means they would have to know about not being able to have children. Also the producers have mentioned in the podcast that the others interest in children and lies in them having special abilities. Like Walts ability to makew things appear. Finally your theory although very well thought out relies heavily in scientific knowledge. Knowledge that the average tv watcher most likely may not have. To explain all the science through the story would take a hell of a lot longer then the 3 seasons with only 16 episodes left. Also don’t you think that having such a scientific explanation would alienate the average tv watcher. In a recent podcast the producers said that the explanation will be scientific but not much different then the scientific why Michael Creighton explains nano-bots or the creation dinosaurs. Which hints at science fiction not scientific theory. They may create a scietific explanation that exsist only in the world of LOST. Why can’t anyone except that this is a big conspiracy funded by Hanso? The producers mentioned stuff from last summers ARG that will start to show up in the show. Meaning Hanso exisit in the LOST universe and has something to do with the island, ergo some type of conspiracy.

Katrina, I think you just got caught in a time loop… and to think you are debunking time travel! jk.

Notimetravel, what is too scientific for the audience about the question, If you travel to the past at the very moment of your death in the present, can you return to the present in which you are dead?

Steve

Notimetravel, I think the reason the Others are trying to fix the fertility problem is that they have broken away from Dharma and want to become independent, but they don’t want Dharma to know what’s going on. Note that only Ethan and Dr. Richard Alpert seem to travel to the future at Door #1. Ben doesn’t go, Mr. Friendly doesn’t go. Why not? Because they are Work Men or the sons of Work Men and therefore they’re supposed to stay on the Island in perpetuity, doing Work or being experiment subjects or whatever. After the purge, a couple of the scientists sided with the Work Men (Alpert and Ethan) and they handle all of the travel duties to Door #1. The Others are on the run now because the real Dharma knows that something has gone wrong at Door #2. I think Steve has solved the whole show…

Has it really been debunked? Certainly there is no standard science-fiction time machine where you dial in the date you want to go to and step inside — maybe that’s all that the producers have debunked. The door #1/door #2 idea doesn’t fit the conventional idea of time travel at all; it’s more of a secret passageway between two locations in space-time. It’s the only reasonable explanation for this show that I’ve ever seen.

Regarding time travel being “debunked” on Lostpedia, I find it very telling that they conviently add the disclaimer “…something that involved time travel (as conventionally related in the science fiction genre).” I mean, why even add that last part if time travel was out of the question? They just gave themselves a giant loophole to evade the answer. Steve

We don’t actually know for sure that Desmond did actually travel in time. We know he turned the key. We know his perception after that was he was in his past. We know he meet the ring shop lady who knows about the nature of time and knows she needs to give him some guidance.

We know she is in the picture frame on the lead monks desk.

If the turning of the key really sent him back in time briefly, then that would mean she would have to have discovered it and made the same jump at will. Or the orginal her that existed back then would have somehow known he had come back to her present time and needed to know all of this.

If the turning of the key only induced a vision then it falls under the same rules as all of the other dreams/visions/sweatlodge experiences others have had.

Considering the history of the show, it seems more likely that whatever is behind these many visions knew the turning of the key had given him some control over time or sequences of future events and it wanted to give him some guidance. If it is good or bad guidance I wouldn’t hazzard to guess though.

Outstanding theory. My brain hurts after reading it all though..lol….good stuff though

1) I kind of like the time travel theory, but if you remember what kind of sub they had, it appeared to be WWII vintage, somewhere around the time of the “Phillidelphia Experiment” Except instead of moving back in time, move forward, even 108 min. That way no matter how well you look for something it isn’t there … . yet. Thats why fetuses cannot come to term. It hasn’t happened yet.

2) The cable going into the ocean was from the satalite station where Mikhail Bakunin spent his time. Ben said that since the station was blown up by Locke that noone could make it back to the island. The outside world needed an inside source to locate it. And if they were in the past how could they communicate with the future. i.e. Juliette seeing her sister with the baby. Maybe they could have been watching video from the past, hence they are in the future.

3) Although I believe the 108 min window was only the time that was allowed before the Electro-Magnetic field began to overload and needed to be discharged. The reason it had to be continuously entered through human interface, is, well they were using a Apple II/IIe computer which didn’t have enough speed or power to turn itself on. And that was a mid 80’s model. Any how I’m getting off track here. As we all know the earth is incased in a magnetic field which prevents radiation of the sun and other cosmic sources from penetrating to the surface, effectively bending the radiation around the planet. Now this magnetic field encompasses the entire planet. Now if we have a very small pinpointed field of energy, or in this case naturally occuring magnitism, around this island it may effectively bend light which is nothing more than a form radiation around it. Making it invisible to the eye and to navigational instrumentation as well. Flight 815 just happened to be in the vicinity of the island when Desmond missed the 108 min window and set off a EMP (Electro Magnetic Pulse), destroying the electronics of the plane causing the catostrophic failure. Basically the same as with Naomi’s helocoptor. The only reason that there is no 108 minute window is because now the charge doesn’t build up (remember how inside the hatch the area that was blocked off), it is just naturally occuring.

I could go on, but I really should get something done before the end of my shift. I love my work…….

I believe this theory gives the best explanation of what is going on on the island. This theory should be linked to the history of the island and it’s early inhabitants to be more complete. It is possible according to this theory, that the Losties entered the time bubble of the island as the plane was going down but I beleive that the people that were on it were not there accidentally. It was either planned or guided, so that these people ‘return’ to the island and correct fate-destiny that might have been disrupted at some point in the future?

This will stop all the people that think time travel is taking place. direct ftom lostpedia:

Theory: One or more of the characters traveled in a time machine or went through something that involved time travel (as conventionally related in the science fiction genre). Debunked by: Damon Lindelof Source: SciFiWire Interview Special Notes: Though the writers have said “no time travel” specifically, Damon Lindelof also drops the hint that time may move differently on the island; for example, at Comic Con ‘06, where he responded to one fan’s question with: “It’s interesting that you should ask about time because… you know… you’re making a basic assumption that they’ve been there, y’know, as long as they think they’ve been there.” This controversial theory was “debunked” by Lindelof during the filming of Season 1. He said at the time, “There isn’t any time travel.” However, the events of “Flashes Before Your Eyes” appear to contradict that, and bring into question if the writing of the plot had been “course corrected” also at a later date.

So time on the island moves slower or faster but guess what straight from Lindenlof NO TIME TRAVEL. Where do you think I got my username.

And we now know that Alpert was not a Dharma scientist unless the natives were some type of experimental group working form Dharma, while the village group were some type of control group.

I still like the theroy of this being an experiment by Hanso to discover if life can be extended some how by the island. That is why they might have put up the electronic fence. The fence my be a way to block the effect of the island. One group lives inside to see if they age like normal one group lives outside to see if they age differently. Hanso found out about the purge and needed a new experimantal group ero the crash. Every expeiment need a control and non-control group. This would not explain why Alpert and other natives have continued to not age after living behind the fence unless they are truely natives and being born there mens no matter what you age differently. But of course we don’t know how much time lapsed between the purge and the crash. We can say at least three years because Juliet was not there for the purge.

Just stop with all the time travel stuff and look at what’s in front of you. Stop acting like a bunch of High School AP students. So brilliant that you can’t see obvious in front of you because there must be some type of grander or greater answer, because simple explanations are for pesants.

see above comment

And farther down that same page if you kept reading:

“In Flashes Before Your Eyes Desmond did go back in time (producers confirmed it), which means a character did reenter the Island through time travel”

And they didn’t copntradict themselves because he did not travel back in time via a “time machine or went through something that involved time travel (as conventionally related in the science fiction genre).”

That last little caveat is important.

All you time travel nuts go to the Heros blogs. If the producers explain this all with time travel then, I’m done. The show would lose all credibility. It would uncreative and unoriginal. It would go down in history as one of the biggest build up to one of the biggest let downs in TV history. The producers are way smarter then to use a copout like time travel. Desmond is the only one they have confirmed as having any time travel experience. A they make a point to stress that his experience with time travel was unique unto itself. Niot like any conventional time trave in the sci fi genre meaning that no one else on the island is traveling in time in the conventional sci fi way. Read between the lines or go watch Stargate.

Fantastic theory! I wouldn’t be surprised if you solved Lost! Two questions though: why are all the losties connected in their flashbacks? Also, how do you explain the writers saying that there is no time travel?

Steve, I think this supports your theory in part, as I understand it, that the Electro-magnetic events reset time in 108 increments.

When I was reading your theory, I remembered the several times in the series that clock times do not match up. I read about, but did not see, the flashback of Shannon’s dad in the E.R, in which the time of his death is stated as 8:15 (by whom?), but the intern’s watch showed 11:14. Also, these various screencaps showing Ben’s clock at about 12:35, 3:25 and 4:10, depending on the frame. http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/search/label/Ben. (I just noticed now that the content of the top shelf also changes depending on the frame)

Taking the last one first, the difference between 12:35 and 4:10 (assuming both are a.m. or p.m.) is 3 hours 35 minutes, which is almost exactly 2 times 108 minutes. Perhaps this difference corresponds to time twice being reset by 108 minutes since the Losties arrived, once when the plane crashed and once with the failsafe. The 3:25 could correspond with time in the real world (see below).

Speaking of which, in the real world in which the intern’s watch exists, the time problem also translates into multiples of 108. Obviously the difference between 8:15a and 11:14a is 3 hours (granted one minute off) and that is not a multiple of 108. But on different days, those two times are 27 hours apart, or 1620 minutes, which is exactly 15 X 108. Was it confirmed that the intern’s watch said am? If not, moving backwards (ha ha) from 8:15 a to 11:15p, or forwards from 11:15 p to 8:15 am, there is a difference of 9 hours, or 540 minutes, or exactly 5 times 108. Is it possible there have been 5 or 15 electro-magnetic events throughout time? Is it possible there are many timelines? Think of all the clocks in Mrs. Hawkins’ shop. (Two of which are ships’ wheels, and may represent the two times present on the island)

I’m going to watch the show now. I’d love to hear your thoughts, folks. Thanks.

This is by far the best theory i have read, Great Job! You put into words what i could only imagine in my head. Its so reminicent of Alice in wonderland, and you cant forget part two, Through the looking glass, And what Alice found there. Also pretty ironic that the Dharma symbol for TLG is a Rabbit…A white rabbit and a hole…Hmmmmm.

I agree that the most logical explanation is that the island is in the past (or in an alternate timeline, or somehow outside our time). Of all the science fiction/fantasy devises they could have chosen, this is certainly the best one because: 1. it is rooted in scientific theory; and 2. it gives you structural contraints which make the narrative seem more “realistic” and less like the writers are just making things up to make the story work.

A few comments.

I’m skeptical that the explanation for Locke and Rose’s condition is that they have traveled into their past. If you can travel through time, then your whole body should be able to go. The mixture of past and present you hypothesize seems a little too convenient. Why wouldn’t they appear younger. Why does Jack still have tattos. Why would this make Jin fertile? (At first I wanted to add, and why is Charlie still addicted to heroin. But perhaps the physical elements of the addiction have been overcome but he still thinks he is addicted initially. He certainly seems less wired after the crash than on the plane)

More likely, it seems to me, is that the island is an alternative time line or quantum state where your past can be different and therefore your present is different too. I think as the show progresses we are going to learn more about how you can change your past.

Your explanation as to why Lock cannot kill hs father seems questionable, though, because Locke causes his father to be killed taking coercive actions, putting Sawyer and Cooper in the same room.

Not sure this explains how Richard does not age, unless the portal is connected to some particular point in time. Everyone else on the island ages, as we learn in man behind the curtain. Perhaps Richard spends most of his time in 2004, but in different locations, so he does not appear to age on the island because he is always coming back from the same time. Being able to go multiple places in the same time might also enable him to engineer coincidences in a way that those being affected don’t realize, sort of like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day being able to take advantage of his predicament to learn to play the piano and learn all about Andie McDowell.

As I noted in the theory I posted, I’m troubled by the obvious flaws in the pilot’s story, and I still think that the crash was controlled to some extent, but I don’t know that that is inconsistent with a time travel/alternative time line theory.

This theory also might explain why no one —even Kate—seems to remember anything between the plane breaking up and waking up on the beach. Perhaps when you go through this bubble you are briefly in some nonexistent state. Perhaps the plane then falls out of bubble like it is dropped, rather than at high velocity, making the crash more survivable.

Anyway, a great theory.

IMO, the core of Steve’s temporal paradox theory is bulletproof. There is absolutely no other theory that explains how the Others seem to know every facet of each of the survivor’s lives. Until someone develops a more cogent theory, I’m going with this. The producer’s comments regarding time travel can be debated and interpreted to nearly the same extent as the plot line.

Bravo, my friend! My brain hurt reading all that. I have to say that I have always thought there was an element of time travel going on here. Especially when we found out that there were supposedly no survivors of the Flight 815. If indeed the “future” we saw is really the future, then I predict it’s not really the future, but somehow, the past. Because at one point Jack says to the new head surgeon, “Go get my father.I bet he’s drunker than I am” or some such thing. It would seem (to me at least) that in the realty of those flashback(forward) scenes, that Jack’s father is still alive. Did I complete make this up or mishear it?

So much to think about it! Thanks for your amazingly detailed and thought-provoking post!

Love this theory Steve. Can I suggest that the reason Locke can now walk is that he leaves the Island. (Travels to the past) and kidnaps his father BEFORE he gets thrown out of the window. So in “Island time” the accident never happened. Does that make sense? I remember an episode where Locke’s legs went all wonky again but can’t remember exactly what else happened in that ep (Hey I’m a fan not an obsessive) If anyone can remember maybe they can tell me if what happened is consistent with my suggestion. Cheers d

Love this theory, great work. The only thing i wonder is that, in the latest episode, john says that jack is not suppose to leave the island could this mean that if they leave they will alternate the future or something? and how will they leave? using the doors you mentioned could explain why jack told dr. hamil to bring his father down to see who is the drunkest =) oh well i have absolutly now clue =)

Okay, I clearly feel like I’m in the minority here, since so many of you seem to love this theory, but I think it’s just too complicated to be plausible…not to seem condescending, but the average American (yes, I’m an American) does not have the attention span or desire to understand such a complex theory…hence the gross popularity of brain-numbing, senseless reality shows such as The Simple Life and American Idol…these types of programs are easily followed by audience members, even if you miss an episode or two. American audiences, for the most part, are not made up of cerebral beings…so a conclusion such as the one you’ve described would likely confuse and/or alienate the majority of the people watching the show. Granted, it is my suspicion that LOST viewers are generally more intellectual than those who watch more simple shows (you’d have to be, to follow the constant plot twists and connections to previous episodes) but I still think that this theory would lose most people. Remeber the fundamental rule, KISS…keep it simple, stupid.

I think this is a fun theory to think about but I wonder a few things.

If the Others did not know that the plane was going to crash on the island (or did not plan it) how do we explain that Cindy, the flight attendant is an other? She was on the plan and clearly works for Ben.

Also, how would it work with the boat being just off the coast of the island? That would make them in the future time, right? Is it possible to communicate with someone in the past? Time travel is hard for me to wrap my mind around so I’m actually asking!

I’d love answers to these questions!

Despite last night’s episode, I still think that an alternate time line/space time continuum disturbance is the most likely explanation that lies at the core. This is consistent with the producers have said, saying there is no “time travel” per se but being more vague on whether space time may otherwise have been or is being altered. We know that Richard does not age and that in between the time that Ben saw Richard Ben and his father had both aged considerably and Richard had not. We also know that Desmond actually sees glimpses of other times or at least other possible times. There is no way he could have otherwise known about the yellow button, the cable, the arrow etc. We also know that the event with Charlie singing in the rain has apparently occurred in two different timelines, once with Desmond appearing and one without. There may be alternative explanations for some of the other mysterious happenings, but the only plausible explanation for the ones noted above seems to be that at least some characters can physically or at least mentally move unconventionally through space time. Lostpedia says that the name of the person on the freighter is also the name of the German Mathematician who is credited with first describing time as a fourth dimension, which could be a coincidence but if not would support this view.

Beyond that, though, I think its very hard to predict specifics from the limited information we have so far. On the theory that Lock can’t kill his father or that by killing his father he altered his past I don’t think that works. Cooper knew about the crash and Locke being in a wheelchair, so killing a Cooper who had already pushed Locke out the window would not affect that timeline. And I don’t think Jack is in the past either as he has the golden ticket from the crash. As for his father being alive either his father was not dead after all or he is having visions from his father that have become indistinguishable from reality for him. No one other than Jack acknowledges Christian Shepherd’s existence.

It’s stated in this theory that Locke has traveled back in time to a point where he was no longer paralyzed. Existing now as the combo of two different points in his life. I like this theory. It then raises the question: What about a person who crashes on the island who is already dead?

In the first season, Jack chases his “father” through the jungle. I now believe that he was chasing the smokey monster. But, Jack did come upon the empty casket where his father’s body should have been. What happend to the body? I don’t think it’s as simple as one of the polar bears coming in and dragging it off. What if Christian Sheperd has reverted to a point in time where he is not dead, at least not completely? Any ideas?

“Also, these various screencaps showing Ben’s clock at about 12:35, 3:25 and 4:10, depending on the frame.”

Now, I’m as much of a victim to ‘over-thinking’ as the next guy(or girl =P) but isn’t it conceivable that, as omniscient and perfect as we love to think the cast and crew of Lost is, the discrepancies on this clock (which is nowhere remotely close to the focus or even off-focus of the scene) are easily explained by the length/moment being filmed/round-about scene order/etc that the episode was shot in? Mayhaps multiple takes of the same scene were used to complete that moment (yes I know producers like to take complete takes from A to B but…) and the result was that the clock in the background (hopefully, for what I’m saying to deserve any merit, a mere prop) shows different times.

“As for his father being alive either his father was not dead after all or he is having visions from his father that have become indistinguishable from reality for him”

Somehow I feel that if I was confronting a man who, even under obvious duress, demanded that I go and retrieve a man who is no longer alive (unless you’re more willing to lean the “father was not dead after all” way…but then how do you magik that there coffin into everything?) I would have something to say about it…

“If the Others did not know that the plane was going to crash on the island (or did not plan it) how do we explain that Cindy, the flight attendant is an other? She was on the plan and clearly works for Ben.”

Two words. Oh Snapz! It’s true…if they (Ben and le posse) had no idea that plane was a-comin’ down, what’s Cindy’s deal? The only possible way to get around this is…does Cindy work for Dharma? Did they know about the crash of 815? Eventually you come to Cindy being turned to the Ben way of thinking but personally it’s a stretch, someone with access to more gray matter then I currently have in the office should probably tackle this one…

I also go the feeling that his flash-backs were indeed flash BACKS. I know he got his ‘golden pass’ but what if what we have been watchnig is the 2nd time he has been on this island?!?! I know its far-fetched but, his dad is still alive(so he thinks) and whats up with his beard??? When he was on the island his stubble was very grey, and now he has afull grown beard and its dark brown, and please dont say its “Just For Men’ because we can all tell he doesnt give a crap about his life at this time let alone his appearance. I dont have much to back this theory but think about it…Kate should be in jail….and the “he” she referred to could have been her step-dad, obviously before she killed him…..but anyway, again…GREAT JOB STEVE!!!

This stuff is a little hi-tech for me, but would it explain how the Blak Rock crashed so far up on the island? Meaning that it crashed there in the future when sea levels had risen?

How else could it have got there? One hell of a storm? Hardly…

I’m starting to think the flash back vs the flash forward is more how I’m leaning all of a sudden. I believe the original posters terory is pretty darn close to what may be going on, but what if using the doorway they do somehow get off the island, but way before the flight. Far enough that Jack’s Dad is alive. This might explain the secret aspect and just to throw it out there, maybe the dead folk are the losties counter parts. “Why would I go?” Kate thinking “because it’s me that died”. And maybe the problem Jack has is the counter parts are dying, because on their intrusion into this time line, and the main reason Jack feels he has to go back, they are in a sense killing their counter parts by being there. Haven’t really thought this out yet.

BTW: I don’t buy the shows writer’s comments on it not being time travel related, if you were the writer of this series and someone did get on to the right track as to what is happening, would you say “You know you are on the right track” especially when the whole show is based upon it’s mysteries??

Couple of things.

If the people on the island are a combination of their present (on the island) and past selves, then how is it that the young womans xray looks like an old womans. If she were both her present and younger self combined, she should be young everywhere. If the people on the island are a combination of their present and future selves, then the survivors of the crash should be dead. If their future selves, the ones that have supposedly been found at the bottom of the ocean, are dead, then i cant see the combined person being alive. Another explanation could be that the losties are not a combo, but are themselves as they have always been. This could be possible because somehow their plane made it onto the island without them using the “doors”. But, this fact would negate healing properties in the losties, which we know exists especially because of lockes ability to heal quickly. It seems to be pretty clear that the losties are somewhere that is subject to abnormalities, and that the are only two ways to get there (listed above), but we really do not know yet what is going on. The producers obviously have not entirely ruled out some sort of time descrepency, but that also does not mean that that is what is causing everything on the island to happen, or if it is even happening at all (some choice words could have been used when talking about the subject of time to throw everyone off.)

Secondly, one thing that seems to throw this theory off completley is ben’s cancer. Somehow he got cancer when he didnt expect to get any sort of illness, it’s not known whether this is because of healing properties of the island or, according to this theory, his younger or older self was healthy . The descrepancy comes in after the surgery when ben was healing. As pointed out by Jack (i think), ben expected to recover quickly and be able to walk and function just fine not long afterwards. But he didnt, right away. Later, coinciding with Locke showing up, he begins to heal. How would this theory exlain this? Remember, just going back and forth through the doors would not be the property of this theory that heals people quickly on the island (think of naomi).

One last thing about the flashback or flashforward. I think a very key thing was that Jack mentioned his Father twice, yet nobody else even acknowledges his existance. The fact that he was obviously trying to get back to the island and whether or not his father was alive at that time will determine whether it was a flashback or a flashforward.

What if this time travel theory is true and that they crashed on an island in the past. 20 years is a little much but anyway… I believe that the dharma initiative accidentally discovered an electro magnetic field on the Island powerful enough to help them create this time traveling anomaly that needs to be reset every 108 minutes. And they planned to misuse their new found toy. The others are a group of people who used to work for them but turned against them when they found out they were up to no good. Since the “purge”, contact has been cut off from the island because of outgoing transmissions being jammed therefore making it very difficult to locate the island once more since it now exists but out of sync with the rest of time. And the others want to keep it that way. This is why Ben is desperate to keep the island hidden from the rest of the world more specifically the dharma group. Naomi is from the dharma initiative and was sent to try to find the island and find out why they lost contact with the group that Ben and the others killed. The reason why it took so long for her to show up is probably because they needed a signal from the island to pinpoint its exact location witch for a brief moment was possible when the hatch imploded. As for Desmonds flashes… Well thats just a result of him being at the center of the anomaly when it imploded… I think for a moment, he existed in an omnipresent way therefore experiencing all his lifetime in a single moment. This is why he remembers events that still haven’t come to pass.

I believe it has something to do with time travel but just not in the traditional time machine sense. I believe they are capable of resetting time like you say and now they lost that ability making them move forward in time once again creating a different time line, one where Jacks father is still alive and Kate isn’t a fugitive. Maybe the fact that they get rescued brings them into this time line where they should all be dead and Jack realizes that they are all living a lie this is why he is obsessed with getting back to the island. And since they don’t belong in this new timeline the black smoke is killing them off one by one… Ok I admit it sounds like a bad Final Destination sequel (lol) …

As much as I like this theory some facts just don’t add up though…

Fact #1: We know that time still moves forward on the island, if not, there wouldn’t be any night and day. So if the switch was a trigger that reset time on the island back 108 minutes, wouldn’t it freeze time on the island or at the very least it would advance 108 minutes then get pulled back as it resets? Example… If the first time you pushed the button was at noon then 108 minutes later you hit the button and it takes you back to noon again then theoretically there would never be a night time… am i making any sense?

Fact #2: Where did the food that fell from the sky come from? If the dharma initiative was purged and all contact from the island jammed making it invisible to the outside world. How could the remaining members of the dharma project that exist outside the bubble know where to drop the food? They can’t even find the island anymore.

And what about the four toed statue? Are there really aliens like Juliette said? Was she really joking? What’s this temple that Ben mentioned? Who is Jakob? A person that maybe exists out of phase with the island this is why nobody can see him? One of the four toed aliens? Maybe a lostie from the future trying to send a message across time?

I love your theory and wish it were true but there are many grey areas to consider. Time travel is a very tricky subject that leaves many loop holes. Like in Back to the Future 2 when Bif goes back and gives himself the almanac creating a new timeline… so why did he return to the same timeline on his trip back to the future? Wouldn’t he have changed the future? Doc and Marty only notice a change when they return to the present… hmmmm. Like i said , too many anomalies and inconsistencies in time travel.

I just don’t think it is as complicated as everyone would like to believe. I agree, the time travel theory makes some sense, but I really think the writers have a simpler plot structure at the center of the show. I definitely don’t have the answer, or even something close to it, but wouldn’t it be a little much to base the entire show on little known physics theories? I still think the Fountain of youth idea has something to do with it - at least that story is folklore that every average american/brit could relate to. But then again, who knows?

“Don’t know much about a science book; Don’t know much about the French I took;”

What a wonderful world that you see. -Respects to Sam Cooke

You’re science is not quite - uh - science: the Parable of Schrodinger’s Cat, the principle of superposition, each of these things you define incorrectly. In fact, you may actually be defining them closer to their antonyms.

“The Principle of Superposition: If an object is subjected to two separate influences, each producing a characteristic type of motion, it responds to each without modifying its response to the other.” (R. March, Physics for Poets 1992)

Example: A baseball ball is hit by David Ortiz. Its rise/fall and its travel from home plate into the field are independent. Yes, the risefall defines how long the ball will be in the air, however, it does not change the parallel-to-the-ground speed at which the ball enters A-Rods patent leather purse.

The Parable of Schrodinger’s Cat is meant to debunk the very point you make. Niels Bohr proposed that, again from March’s P4Ps, “an instant before the box is opened it contains an equal admixture of ‘live cat’ and ‘dead cat.’ The cat’s fate is settled only when awareness come’s to the observer’s mind, at which time the pattern collapses into one state or the other.”

What you claim is fact is actually theory - one theory, one old theory. Schrodinger was not impressed with that Copanhagen Interpretation and provided a “quite burlesque case” to debunk it: the kitty cat case.

If the up to now saavy producers cop something so lame as time travel, they will have only wasted time.

Lost’s production has some special qualities, one of which is its pragmatic use of science and fantasy. While something supernatural is definately going on, such tired devices as time traval are just not required (I hope). It ain’t perfect, and it aint no 24 either.

“Portuguese…”? She has an English accent. Vanna. Oh, Vanna.

yeah and that one guy doesn’t age, man i’m a weak fan

Steve, this is my favorite theory out of all the theories i’ve read. You’ve done a great job on this, i love nothing more than reading about time travel, philosophy and Lost!

-Time

your theory is ALMOST flawless, except for one thing…

ben definately did NOT invent the time machine, because the “other” that first encountered ben in the forest (when ben was a child) was the exact same age as he is now. it appears that he has not aged at all, and therefore the time machine would have had to be in existence at least from the time ben was a child until now.

also, what’s your take on ben and lock both being “required” to kill their fathers? any significance here?

If you travel to the past at the very moment of your death in the present, can you return to the present in which you are dead? this question from steve himself….has to be true on lost for one reason…the guy with the eye patch had died at least 3 tiems that i know of…and is still alive…so the the theory of the doors may be a huge possability.

oh srry i only read halfway though all the post when i thought aobut this…so if im repeating this…im sorry

Steve,

I love the theory but J3n makes a great point. Schrodinger’s Cat is a challenge to/criticism of our understanding of Quantum Physics at least as it highlights the significant contradiction between our understandings of the subatomic versus the macroscopic realm.

The point of “Schrodinger’s Cat” is to illustrate that certain quantum physics theories are wrong, or at least suspect, since they contradict what we both intuitively and observationally understand of the macroscopic realm.

To clarify, Quantum physics allows for certain subatomic particles to occupy more than one state at the same time. Schrodinger thinks this is bogus (or suspect) and analogizes this same thinking to a macroscopic object, i.e. a Cat.

Using the cat demostrates the absurd results that comes from believing one thing can occupy two states at the same time. If this were true, goes the thinking, then a cat, in the experiment you describe above, could be both simultaneously Alive AND Dead.

Yet, that is not possible as even us layman know. Either the cat is alive or the cat is dead. When you open the box, you find out.

To relate this to LOST, Schrodinger’s cat, therefore, would challenge any logic that justified the survivors being both alive and dead at the same time. To Schrodinger, they are one or the other. I vote alive.

Steve Wynn, May i ask a few additional questions? #1 Considering this theory is true, then the person in the coffin is no one form the island because they were all killed in the crash and lay dead on the bottom of the ocean? #2 Jack and Kate did travel back to a present time when they are actually dead(explaining Kate not being persude by the law, assuming shes not being persude) and jack lieing all the time? #3 The left the island by finding Door #2 because thus far any plane or helicopter that has collided with the time bubble has crashed and rescue by that means is impossible?

LittleK9 Jacks dad could very well be alive on the island, becaquse like you said he could be exsisting as a combo of two points in his life. He is now alive and perhaps makes the trip back home for our flash forward?

I agree wih the comment that the average viewer ain’t gonna get a very complicated scientific theory-even tho the Lost viewer is probably more sophisticted than the American Idol junkie. Steve Wynn’s marvelous, well written treatise reads like a doctoral dissertation. I am not being sarcastic but realistic. However there is an element of profundity in Mr. Wynns therory-and if I understand him correctly (or even if I don’t) the only possible explanation for the mysterious happenings on Lost isn’t time travel (the producers said so-and I don’t think they’d lie) is something much simpler and less complicated and not as contradictory as time travel. That would be the parallel universe theory. How can it not be? We are told that the plane crashed, was found and there were no survivors. Locke tells Jack very specifically “you are not supposed to do that”-i.e. jump to the other universe—it screws things up—you died—if you go back you will have to die….To my simplistic way of thinking this is the over arching storyline–all the mysterious details (is Jack’s father alive or not) and other enigmas will somehow make sense at some point—but before they do they all have to fit into a simple premise (good writers know that less is more). I suspect that many of the questions we all have cannot and will never be answered. They do not have to to make sense except in the larger context There might or might not be some big conspiracy that Penny’s dad is involved in–what matters if that this island is part of some huge experiment, one that involves massive amounts of eletromagnetism which someone has discovered can alter space-time (not time travel) , can create a parallel universe and allow anyone who is now part of this other universe to change his life—do things over, better. It’s all about redemption, finding love, courage and, hopefully, peace. To leave this gift once given is not a good idea.

If so, the polar bears could have somehow wandered in the first portal, located in the far north…

If the “survivors” are both alive and dead, what is the difference between the passengers which are now shown as being alive and the ones that died in the plane crash?

wow….im printing this one out and re-reading it again…

This is positively an extraordinary theory dervived from the roots of Sci-Fi itself. I was nearly perplexed by the Doors until I re-read it. I see how it the theory fits, but I think there is something else because of the fact that the majority of the viewers would not understand this complex notion. Therefore as I repeat myself, there has to be another explanation towards the mystery of Our Island. Kudos.

@j3n (aka da debunker) :)

Man you make some great points. I hope this show doesn’t go the way of X-Files.

I’m still just trying to keep the faith. Hopefully the writers actually do have an ending that satisfies us.

This theory is very compelling, but I am still interested about Charlie’s death. When he asked for the password to unblock the radio tower, the dying woman told it to him as well as telling him that a musician made up the code. Charlie seemed to hesitate, or remember something when she said this…could he have made up the code in the first place?

great ideas here… so:

1. THE hostiles = FUTURE losties

interesting idea lgf… maybe all of the losties are in a loop that makes them the original hostiles (who are eventually Ben’s followers)… Maybe there was something that the dharma initiative experiment had done that somehow leads to the end of the world (or some catastrophe) and the thing that is keeping the thing in check is the freak collission of flight 815… if the original hostiles on the island (who recruit ben originally to betray the dharma, including his own parents, and kill them) are the losties, maybe this would explain something… the hostiles it seems are not naturally evil people… maybe the only reason they are willing to do drastic things, kill people etc. is that these are drastic measures, in the future they know that everybody is dead already, so the stakes are so high that they have to do this… (It’s sort of like… I dunno, 12 monkeys) like lgf says above, maybe charlie made the musical code that he later decodes…

2 JACOB = JACK

I think I buy some of the ideas offered in this theory here: http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/may/24/jacob-reveal/, that jacob is actually jack from the future trying to right the wrong… jacob calls to locke to help him (and maybe even appears to locke later as walt)… and locke then tries to stop jack from making the call…

3 THE WOMAN WHO parachuted, THE freighter, AND THE HIGH TECH satelite PHONE ARE FROM THE FUTURE, BUT A different FUTURE (TIME / reality) THAN JACK’S…

they are from the future… sayid said that the phone was a very advanced technology, that he had never seen something like it before… the phone, the woman from the parachute and the freighter are from the future and, like penny, and like the future jack, searching for the island. but jack / locke / ben are trying to stop her for some reason… she is from the future, right now we might not see her motives but later it will become obvious why she is a threat, she may be trying to alter time also…

The four toed foot = An evolved human foot

Here is a thought on how Wynnter’s theory explains the giant ‘alien’ foot statue… People have speculated that this statue is an alien foot, etc. But if we assume Steve Wynn’s theory, maybe the foot is actually a human foot from the far future which has evolved so that the small toe has disappeared. We know that in evolution, limbs and organs that have no use eventually disappear. The foot statue we saw was of a an evolved human from the far future… Imagine that this island, time bubble has existed for a long long time, people are continually entering it (in the bubble’s past, even before the losties crashed there), i.e. building all this stuff, etc. maybe there was a whole civilization there before, one that was created by future human beings to preserve their future… the people there didn’t know that these three toed people were actually from the future, thought they were actually gods, and built statues of them… Remember: this is possible because, even though this all started say in the 40’s with the dharma initiative, who knows how long it has existed in island time… Maybe, also in the future, humans have evolved telepathic abilities either through technology, or just through evolution… which would help to explain some of Walt and Desmond’s powers… Walt and Desmond are basically more evolved… mutants among humans…

Could this theory of the Losties currently living in the past explain Hurley’s apparent lack of weight loss? He’s been on the island for 90+ days now. Overweight people tend to lose weight faster than healthy-weight people on the same diet because they burn more calories in their everyday activities. In real life circumstances, Hurley likely would have had substantial weight loss by now. I’m not sure which episode, but in one, there is some conversation between Hurley and another Lostie about why he hasn’t lost weight yet.

If Hurley lost significant weight in this “past” time they’re living in now on the island, he wouldn’t be the person he was before he got to the island. I mean, supposedly his weight contributed to the deck collapsing, which sent him to the mental institution, where he acquired the numbers that allowed him to win the lottery. If he wasn’t overweight, none of this would’ve happened, and he wouldn’t have been in Sydney or on Flight 815.

What do you guys think?

bengevia,

Just as locke gains the power to heal, hurley unfortunately gains the power to remain fat… ;)

Regarding hurley and the mental institution. does anybody remember Libby (hurley’s girl crush on the island who was shot by michael at the end of season 2)? She said that she was a psychiatrist. But in that episode, we the viewers see her in the mental institution as one of the patients at the end I think… What would that mean relating to this time travel theory? How does Libby fit in?

The whole Libby / Hurley mental institution thing somehow reminds me of 12 monkeys… These guys who people think are crazy, some which are, sort of, but some who actually know something about the future…

wow…..im new to this site but i can see you ppl take it seriously,for a change! by far the most consise and probable theory,my fulrespect to the author for aenlightening read,my oly critisism however is how it puts it in a tidy little box,and how impractical it would be for say,ben to explain your theory in an hour episode!i mea youd need a season for ppl to get it,it does add up tho an hey i aint got nothin postable for my theory right now,

great theory;]

Your theory is very interesting, it does explain some of the questions that are raised in the show but what it doesn’t explain is why these certain people happened to be on that flight, that happened to crash into this mysterious island….so many of them are connected in such a way that it can’t just be random coincidences, there has got to be an explanation other then just time travel. I do believe that is may be an alternate reality or some sort of space time continum. Also I think that it isn’t just a coincidence that Jack and Claire are brother and sister and they both just happened to be on the same plane that crashed, I think Christian Shepard has a big role in this, maybe he works/is part of Dharma. I also think that Claires son is going to play a very important to the plot…remember the psychic that told Claire she had to raise him herself, he will grow up to be someone very vital to this story. Well I have read many theories and this is good, but there are still some major questions unaswered.

Interesting theory and possibly the best one around… but theres something that makes me think that it all cant really be possible.

Firstly though I would like to point out a slight contradiction in the theory. You say that the Others did not know about the flight and it was a chance encounter, but you go on to say that the others had to know about the flight because of all the information they know.

According to your theory what is likely is that they did know it was coming, but maybe didnt know exactly WHEN it was coming because of the time difference… but surely they had to know in order to have all the information on the passengers?

But back to my reason why TT cant be the ‘lost theory’. while in the looking glass, charlie speaks to penny in real time, about who each other is and about desmond. How can this happen if he is 20 years in the past ? I suppose you could argue that the looking glass is actually some kind of gateway to the present time…. but that would either involve forward time travel, or extreme science fiction to communicate between times.

Its back to the drawing board for me. :(

Hey Steve

I think this is a really good theory and explains alot of things, like how Ben was able to show Juliette pictures of her sister when realistically she should have died from cancer, however I do not understand how Michael and Walt got off the Island and out of that period of time, is it just that the boat took them into the other door?? Please get back to me with your ideas…

I think any theory of this complexity is going to be fraught with errors, only because what we see at this point only adds up to pieces of a larger jigsaw puzzle. We assume we see the picture, or even the corner, but we have no way to know for sure. But I applaud the attempt — truly some deep thinking.

Now here’s my grand conjecture. Suppose that the 108 minute cycle kept the two timelines connected (the island and everywhere else). The large build up of energy created and sustained the connection. But now that the hatch was destroyed (and the connection severed) the two timelines are randomly joined, meaning also that at any point in the regular world’s timeline you can now find the island (if you get passed the jamming device or other interference). So let’s say Naomi’s boat is from a different point in time than the Losties, let’s say the past (I don’t buy the phone being from the future because Sayid hasn’t seen one, Hurley knew exactly what it was and how to use it) — then the Losties would be returned to a point in the timeline before the crash. (which would make them be in two places in the same time… or maybe this is where the bodies on the ocean floor come from) — anyway, maybe Jack’s depression comes from having to relive his life over again, with the same outcome. the same people dying. I wonder if the funeral was for someone who had died (or dies) on the island. And Jack tries to confront fate by committing suicide and still fails.

Or maybe instead of time travel, we should be thinking alternate realities? Any thoughts there?

What do you think happened to Ben’s girl? did she get pregnant?

So Naomi has an advanced phone which leads us to believe that she comes to the island from a point in the future. Why is it that she makes the crash of 815 seem like a recent event? I.E. Talking to Charlie about how his band just released a Greatest Hits CD in the wake of his death. If the phone is advanced, how is it that the crash isn’t OLD news for her?

black_rock - i don’t think the future timeline is a long way ahead (100’s of years for example). I think people are just saying the satellite phoned was quite advanced. We can see its not space-aged; it just looks pretty funky like something we can expect from our own mobiles given another 5 years… If you look at a mobile phone from just a few years ago it looks really old fashioned. Sayid is just saying he doesn’t know the type, most people would remember a mysterious plane crash / dead rock-star for a few years as a ‘recent’ event

k

It is clear to me no one is truly educated on time travel. Accordind to Dr. E. Brown …1.21 jiggawatts is necessary to operate the flex capacitor. Time travel is not possible for the Delorean unless this power can be harnessed.

wynnter, I dig the theory, even showed it to my dad who gets into Einstein and quantum physics. With that, we weren’t sure why Locke not killing his father had anything to do with time travel conundrums. His father had obviously already sired Locke at the point he was going to kill him. Our thinking is that the Grandather Paradox is when sonny kills pops before the child is conceived, thereby eliminating that future lineage and unhinging the present. Have to agree with other posters that this is probably too complicated for network tv, although if we were a fly at the initial meeting between ABC execs and Abrams, Cuse & Lindelof, I would think your sales pitch is not too far off…