LOST-Theories.com

The reason Charlie says “are these the people that were on the island before us” really awkwardly to Locke is because he was part of the group that heard Rousseau’s transmission claiming “its has killed them all”. That group had promised not to tell the other losties what they had heard and that is the reason Locke does not no what Charlie is refereing to when he mentions people being there before them.

oh damn I really had thought I’d spotted a major clue there. you have most definitely ruined my day sniff sniff. You are however absolutely right which makes complete sense now, thanks for pointing it out (and ruining my day).

Kat that makes sense, thanks. Although ultimately she could be Eve.

I also wasn’t that focussed on Sun & Jin though I remember that the first time the backstory really blew me away with the way it made me look at what was going on in the present differently.

There were several things about them that I noticed though. One was that by being handcuffed to the plane Jin is in danger from the Sun. A theory about one of the origins of wedding rings is that they are a symbolic representation of the kinds of bands placed on women’s wrists to signal possession by a particular man. So—wedding band=handcuff; Sun=Sun? Also, at the words “our very own Adam & Eve” there is a jump-cut to Sun & Jin. (Interesting that Kate says in this ep: “I don’t want to be Eve.”) Jin says in the fb about the white flower “Someday it will be [a diamond].” After the passage of a very long period of time?

My main focus was actually on Jack & Kate. I realized in that scene in which Kate asks if Jack is checking her out that the original triangle is not Kate-Jack-Sawyer; it’s Kate-Jack-Island. That scene gave me some insight into what might be Kate’s main character flaw—maybe (and this probably goes into the backstory with her father) she defines herself too much in terms of her sexuality. Her relationship with Jack starts off differently—it’s being built on their working together for the common good—but here it seems to break apart with Jack continuing to think of the community first and Kate angry that he’s not thinking about her in a sexual way. She says something like “What do you mean ‘We,’ You haven’t convinced me, yet.”

It’s interesting that Jack is not all about getting rescued at this point. In fact, the very opposite. Sayid says something to him about when did he decide to form his own civilization. That’s a very different goal then doing everything he can to get off the island. I wonder what changed for him—was it the existence of the others? Another thing is that Locke tells Charlie that the island might give you what you are looking for but you have to give the island something—is a relationship with Kate what Jack had to give up?

Good thoughts, jaz.

I think Jack lied about checking Kate out, by the way. Jack seems to think that the proper way to show a woman you love her is to “protect” her, a questionable proposition in any circumstance but certainly wrong in Kate’s case.

In a way, Kate wanted Jack to be a little more Sawyer-like in that moment. She wouldn’t even have HAD to ask Sawyer if he was checking her out… he’d leave no doubt about the fact!

I imagine women face this problem with men a lot… either a guy is so much of a “gentleman” it’s patronizing or he’s so much of a hound it’s humiliating. Ironically, in the end the hound can seem the more respectful of the two because in many ways he’s more forthright in expressing his feelings (even if he often veils his motives).

Dang… why can’t we men just get it right!

yes, interesting point. I have heard the complaint from male friends in the past that women aren’t interested in nice men, or that women always choose the bad boy type, but I think what you describe gets more at the reality of what’s going on. Men who idealize and seek to protect women are actually distancing themselves from the particular person they are trying ostensibly to get close to (for one thing because they are treating her as a category).

Funny, but I actually don’t see Sawyer as the hound or wolf type espcially as I’m rewatching. I think actually Charlie plays that role more often. There was that remark he made about Kate’s bra size in this ep. (I suddenly thought, gee Charlie, you’re a bit of a pratt at his point, aren’t ya), and the fact that he agrees to the trek into the jungle as soon as he finds out Shannon is going. In contrast, Sawyer seems pretty resistant to Shannon’s, um, well “charms” doesn’t seem the right word as she’s annoying as hell. I think Sawyer is looking for someone to mother him first and foremost. Maybe in that sense I see him as the bad boy figure, with the emphasis more on the “boy.”

Well, sure… but I guess I was really speaking more in terms of Kate’s perceptions of Sawyer rather than Sawyer’s general character as revealed to us by the writers.

“You sure know how to make a girl feel special, Sawyer,” she said to him once. I think Kate seems him as a bit of a hound. I think that’s sorta what he wants her to think. But… I could be wrong.

tangential afterthought—if anyone has ever seen the James Dean movie “East of Eden”—the triangle of the two brothers Cal/Aaron and the woman they are both in love with, Abra, is a great illustration of the way in which the “good” brother doesn’t really see or interact with the woman he thinks he loves, but only with an idealized version of her that he’s contructed.

Yeah, no I agree that Kate sees Sawyer that way which I think is also about the way she sees herself.

Exactly.

Hey, I had a smile on my face to when Jin was beating the crap out of Michael :-)

It wasn’t surprising to me that Locke knew Charlie was on some kind of drug, because Jack knew it as well. Although, Jack is a medical doctor so…… plus they both saw him stammering away from the flight attendants in the plane.

To me the Kate not going with Jack thing fell perfectly in line with her character. She’s afraid to get attached to anyone (which I think stems from her father’s actions), always wanting to be on the run. She left her childhood sweetheart, she shot the guy she used to get into the bank, she drugged her husband, avoids the obvious connection with Jack, and only sleeps with Sawyer because she thinks the Others are going to kill him.

kat: I think the main thing Sawyer is trying to protect Kate from now is himself.

yeah, I agree—so I do see his story headed in a darker direction as well.

@ crb: …and yet we love her!

@Jazprof: I always appreciated the “real” Sawyer, a man of pretty decent principles really, underneath the wisecracking bad boy facade. The first evidence of this is when he forces Kate to read his letter. We know he is a man with more depth. He’s well read, intuitive and in some ways a classy guy. “You don’t have to use me Freckles, just ask” - a hound woudn’t say that. You’re right on.

@Kat: Sawyer’s got real issues now (at end of S3) trying to define his identity post-Cooper. Yes, I see him going through more internal strife - but he’s definitely on the rise, not the descent.

That’s funny, everytime someone ascts crazy I DO automatically think “are they on smack?”

It made perfect sense to me that Jack was not at all focused on rescue, but on surviving on the island. First of all, Jack spoke to the pilot, who told him without a doubt that the rescuers were searching in the wrong place for survivors. I don’t know about you, but that seemed pretty hopeless to me. Secondly, Jack views the situation pragmatically, which is why most of them are still alive. It is very reasonable that his first instinct would be to make sure everyone was provided for physically, since the chances of rescue according to the pilot were almost non existent. Another reason Jack was so focused on “digging in” was because he had his priorities in order. If they got rescued, all the better, but meanwhile he was not about to let everyone die of thirst.