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I won´t get into a comment on the equinox right here, but the international dateline is nothing more then an international agreement on where to put the border between say wednesday and thursday as the earth rotates. It´s just a simple decision made by humans, and should have no impact on the world. It´s located in the middle of the pacific, 180meridian, but isn´t even a straight line since some bigger islandgroups would like to be on the same side of it. There´s nothing phenomenal about this line since it isn´t really an actual place of importance but simply an agreement by the different countries of the world.

why should it have been dark if they crashed at approx 4:15

what was the LOST date when Naomi crashed onto the island? She said something about looking for the coordinates of the island and seeing nothing but ocean, then the island suddenly apppeared….Was that on Dec 22nd? Might explain the sudden appearance if the island is cloaked somehow by the sattelites.

Kat, the number on the printout des had was “Sept. 2204416” I think i copied it right from your theory, I interpreted this to mean sept 22 2004 at 4:16. The equinox was at 16:30 which was fourteen minutes after the energy release that brought the plane down. Thats where I came up with the time for the crash. Why do a lot of people say it should have been dark when they crashed. I am not doubting anybody, I just wonder why it should be dark.

shell if she crashed 92 days after the losties it would have been December 23, 2004. I think her crash was 90 days after the losties and that puts her at Dec 21, 2004, the winter solstice (http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/EarthSeasons.html), and the shortest day of the year. I think we’re onto something here.

I don’t think it would even be dusk at 4:16. I think the idea that satellites are cloaking the island, and interuption in their signals allows the island to be seen on equinoxes and solstices is dead on.

Yeah! We might be on to something! Thanks Kat and Lockeko for the comments and discussion! I didn’t know that about Ben’s birthday or the day Naomi crashed- being the winter solstice! If that is the case then this can’t be a coincidence too. I’m going to read Prof’s theory about this!

Definately somthing going on here. Check out my theory… http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/jul/31/proof-time-shift-island/

:O, i posted something on this…it got shot down :(:(…check it out if you want, people were saying it separates the east and west which i kinda alreadyknew

FYI,

The plane departed some time between 2:15 and 2:55 p.m.

In the Pilot episode, when Jack spoke with the pilot, he indicated they had been flying for around 6 hours when the radio went out and that they were approximately 1000 off course.

In The Other 48 days, Cindy indicated that they had been “flying for two hours in the wrong direction”, which accords with the cruising speed of a large jet — somewhere in the neighborhood of 550 mph.

Given this, it appears (give or take a half hour to maybe an hour max) that the plane was in the air for about 8 hours.

Assuming the plane left Sydney heading east, and followed the flight plan that the pilot described, the plane crash would have occurred between 10 and 11 Syndey time, and must have occurred east of Syndey (i.e. they headed east for 6 hours and then in some unknown direction for 2).

Since it should have occurred east, it means that it should actually be later than 10:15

This means it should have been at the earliest 10:15 p.m. And considering time zone changes, even a couple of hours later than this — depending on how westerly they were traveling on their way back to fiji.

Thus, if it was daylight when they crashed, it begs the question…were they actually headed east? If not, this raises the question of was And was the pilot being honest? And then, where was the plane headed?

This means that the plane crash should have occurred sometime between 8-10 p.m. (give or take). If they were indeed flying east toward LA, then

PLEASE disregard ABOVE — mistakenly clicked ON POST BEFORE I reviewed. THIS version MAKES MUCH MORE SENSE.

FYI,

The plane departed some time between 2:15 and 2:55 p.m.

In the Pilot episode, when Jack spoke with the pilot, he indicated they had been flying for around 6 hours when the radio went out and the pilot said they were approximately 1000 miles off course when they crashed.

In The Other 48 days, Cindy indicated that they had been “flying for two hours in the wrong direction”. This jives with the pilot’s statement of being 1000 miles off course because the cruising altitude of a large jet is somewhere in the neighborhood of 550 mph. So if they flew for two hours in a different direction than the flight plan, they would be about 1000 miles off course as per the pilot’s statement in the Pilot episode.

Given this, it appears (give or take maybe a half hour or so) that the plane was in the air for about 8 hours.

Assuming the plane left Sydney heading east, and followed the flight plan that the pilot described, the plane crash would have occurred between 10 and 11 p.m. Syndey time (8 hours from takeoff which was btw. 2 and 3 p.m.). This, obviously, would be nighttime.

Additionally, we “know” that the crash also must have occurred east of Syndey as they headed east for 6 hours and then supposedly in a westerly direction for ONLY 2 hours. So, it seems that they must have been east of Sydney.

Considering time zone changes (you lose time as you go east), the actual time where they crashed may even have been a couple of hours later — depending on how westerly they were traveling on their way back to Fiji.

THIS MEANS THE TIME SHOULD BE somewhere BTW. 10:15 p.m. (Sydney) and about 3:00 a.m. (at the very latest by time zone change). Also, we know that it is spring in the Southern Hemisphere. So, no 24 hour sunlight in Australia, Fiji, etc.

THUS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DARK!

So, if it was daylight when they crashed, it raises the questions:

(i) were they actually headed east? Remember, if they were headed west, they would be gaining hours…so even if in the air eight hours, its possible that it could have daylight.

(ii) was the pilot being honest;

(iii) if not, where was the plane headed?

(iv) How could it have been an event at 4:15 on the island have caused the plane crash?

lgs, I understand you are wanting it to all line up mathmatically. I too like things to make sense. So I get where you are coming from. And you asked some good questions.

So let me think this through. 1. Well, we obviously know it was not dark when the plane crashed. 2. Time they left Sydney? 2:15-2:55pm 3. Time on Desmond’s print out? 4:16pm. 4. How long they were flying? 8 hrs atleast?

You are right, lgs, “Something” is not adding up here. Now we have to discern what that “Something” is…

I personally believe that Desmond’s System failure sheet was the time of the crash. 4:16pm. So my problem is with WHERE they are actually. I believe that they are not in the TIME ZONE that we thought. SO my question is what TIME ZONE are they in that makes sense with the departure time and Desmond’s print out? It would have to be west of Sydney. Could it be near Thailand perhaps?

PS. Question: Is it a FACT that they are East of Sydney? IF that is the case, then I guess the pilot was wrong or lied about it…hmm. But wouldn’t Jack and everyone know HOW LONG they were flying and try to figure out what time zone they are in? This is really wierd. Makes me think of Charlie’s line- “GUYS! WHERE ARE WE?”

Paintgirl: Very nice post! You are right about things not adding up, but I don’t know if a layperson may know enough to make that determination, so I think it’s unlikely that any of the passengers may have put that much thought into it. Cindy and the pilot would certainly have the most accurate information, providing they weren’t lying. I believe that it’s still light out because of “the equinox”.

Please see Prof’s theories on this subject. I know you’ll enjoy! +1

I think lgs’s math is wrong. I don’t think you add the 6 hours from jack to the 2 hours from cindy, they are probably encompassing of each other. Also, just because you leave sydney and fly for 6 hours then crash. Your flight crashed 6 hours after the sydney flight, so if you left at 2 you crashed at 8. This does not take into account crossing of time zones, etc. Also, how do we know the flight time. Seems to me like charley or hurley was having to leave from the hotel in a rush to make the flight. I would think check out time would have made him leaving the hotel sometime before 11 a.m. (checkout time in south central US) and then leaving the airport. Someone needs to do the math and figure out the time zones and see where they should have been.

Someone has done the math and lgs has it exactly right!

According to Lostpedia, flight 815 departed from Sydney at 2:55 GMT and crashed on the island EIGHT hours after takeoff. If Lostpedia is correct then lgs has it exactly right! Either the pilot lied (in the pilot) or the island may not be in the Pacific. Excellent job lgs!

Great comments, paintgirl, I agree with your synopsis.

i think we are seeing a production error here. and again how do we know the departure time.

ok if they left australia at 2:55 pm GMT, then crashed 8 hours later, it would be 10:55 GMT, GMT= Greenwhich Mean Time

lockeko: alice has it right. It’s been posted on several websites! Quite awhile ago. Old News!

Paint girl great post and I agree it is strange indeed.

Hey all,

Got to agree with Alice on this one. I mean, hey its the least I can do when someone agrees with me.

Lockeko, six hours into the flight, they lost the radio. The pilot said they then turned around (off the flight plan) and headed back toward Fiji. When they crashed, they were 1000 miles off course.

Given the speed of a jetliner (a bit over 500 mph), it would seem that they would have had to deviate from the flight plan for about 2 hours to be 1000 miles off course.

This was supplemented by the comment in “The Other 48 Hours” where Cindy said they had been traveling in the wrong direction for 2 hours. i.e. they were traveling west…not east.

So six plus 2 is eight. As was mentioned, this is a fairly well-documented piece of Lost.

Also, the 2:15 was the scheduled departure time of Lost from the episode Exodus (II) at least as it was displayed on the Oceanic computer. I think there were other references to this, but I will check.

On to other comments,

Paintgirl, I agree. It is not a fact that they are east of Sydney. I’m not sure where they are. Although Katrina said that they were indeed between Australia and the US (in the Pacific) as per the producers comments. Assuming this is true, we would have to assume that they were east of Sydney. But you know what, I trust the producers less and less with each passing season.

That said, Bali is west of Sydney. And Bali is supposedly where the plane “was found”. Also, a direction west of Sydney makes more sense for the whole daylight angle. Are they west of Syndey, I don’t know, but there is certainly a case to be made for it.

Of course, this whole daylight thing, as mentioned, could be a production error. However, I find this extremely unlikely because this would be a major miss. They could have told us the plane took off any time they liked…how could they screw that obvious point up? Possible but unlikely in my book.

Ah well, maybe its a time warp…lol. Seriously though, who knows.

Paintgrl, by the way, it may not even be the Autumnal Equinox. If they crashed in the Southern Hempisphere, it would be the Vernal (Spring) Equinox because our seasons are reversed. Given their flight time, it is likely it actually occurred in the Southern Hempisphere making it the Vernal Equinox.

Well , the writers have said on several occasions that TIME is different on the ISLAND. I wonder about that. So is it faster or slower there. OR does it run backwards? Who knows! Ben had some screens showing events in the real world, but I don’t remember when that was - something about the redsox… so I don’t know if there are any clues on how the time on the island is different from the real world.

GMT they left the island at 2:55 GMT not australian time that is why it shouldn’t have been dark in the pacific where they landed

lockeko…this will never end eh, : )

Sydney is 10 hours ahead of GMT time (or +10 GMT). Thus, 2:55 GMT (2:55 a.m.) is 12:55 p.m. Sydney time.

Link: http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc

As per Lostpedia, the plane took off at 2:55 GMT and 14:55 Sydney time (or 2:55 p.m.)

Link: http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Pre-crash_timeline (Scroll down to Sept. 22).

I think the time that was definitely in the Exodus: Part II was 14:55.

Link: http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/OceanicFlight815

I can’t be sure of the GMT time being in that episode. Can anyone confirm which time or times was in that episode?

This raises a whole new question. How is the time shown to be 14:55 Sydney time and 2:55 GMT. This is a 12 hour difference when it should only be a 10 hour difference.

Daylight savings time does account for one of the hours. Syndey uses daylight savings time. So, from March to November, Sydney is GMT +11.

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/australia/new-south-wales/sydney/time.htm

However, this does not explain the extra hour. I am baffled on this one. Any thoughts??? Someone had to have figured this out, right?

Long story long, the more I dig into this — the less relevant I think it probably is. So, I am signing off on this one now. Someone else can take up the torch.

IMHO, a daytime crash still makes little sense given even the rough timeline that we have. But why sweat it. There are alot crazier things going on in lost, right?

PS. Sorry for my long posts!!!

PS. As a note to explain myself, GMT time is generally given in Military time — so 2:55 is 2:55 a.m. not 2:55 p.m.

This is most likely the case here as well. Why?

We have seen the time for takeoff expressed as both 14:55 Sydney time and 2:55 GMT. Now, 14:55 is clearly “military time”. It means 2:55 pm. That I think is beyond challenge.

Therefore, if 2:55 GMT meant 2:55 p.m. not a.m., as has been asserted, this would mean that either (1) the flight was roughly around 3:15 a.m. Syndey time and 14:55 is way off; (2) the 14:55 departure time from Syndey meant that Syndey had somehow become a full 24 hours ahead of GMT time. (Thus, everyone in Syndey would have lost half a day)

Either we just solved a huge piece to Lost — which I doubt — or the probable explanation (given both how GMT is often expressed and the times we have seen) is that 2:55 is 2:55 a.m. GMT time.

so 2:55 am gmt should be 12:55 pm sydney. so they left about 1:00 pm, and crashed 6-8 hours later. it still would be daylight in september at the lattitude we are talking about.

Ok seriously last post on this.

Lockeko, this is Australia. That means September is the beginning of their spring…which follows their winter. Hence, the days are shorter.

Now, as you know, I believe that the storyline (unless people are lying, which is possible) points to an 8 hour flight. You think it could be as short as 6. Assuming you are correct, this would mean the plane crashed at the very earliest at 7 p.m. Sydney time. Of course, this excludes the fact that we are to believe that they are traveling in such a direction as to be losing hours of daylight.

Even still, if they did not change time zones, sunset for Sydney, Australia on Sept. 22 of 04 was around 6. See link below. Not that producers would actually check such an exact time, my idea is simply that since it is the Southern Hemipshere, it should be apparent that in Sept. (their early early spring) that the sun is not brightly shining at 7 or 8 p.m. (and if you take my and I think the orthodox timeline, 9 or 10 p.m. or later).

Link:

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_rstablew.pl

Even if you think that is wrong, it would at least be dusky — of course, it is fair to chalk it up to better tv if its day light.

Still, considering they were losing time as they traveled and that the flight should be 8 hours, there is no way it is light at 9, 8 or even realistically 7. ( and if they changed time zones, even later than 9).

The only way to explain a broad daylight crash is some weird abnormality surrounding the island — which is plausible as we know time on the island is definitely a bit skewed.

There is no way the daylight crash can be explained otherwise. I love the theory expounded by Alice in the other thread. Maybe that’s it. If not, it sure was a great explanation.

It should not be daylight. The sun would be set that time of year in the Southern Hempishere. Even if they made it back into the Northern Hemisphere, it should have been too late for sunlight.

Cheers!

Nice post Paintgirl! I sort of got hooked reading all of your stuff tonight. Well done.

Personally, I thought the timing of the crash was more tied to a bible passage debated in ProfO’s theory about the Rise of Aaron.

http://www.lost-theories.com/theories/2007/jun/10/rise-aaron/

But who knows? Good stuff. Looking forward to reading more of your thoughts. +1 from me

Good one, Paintgirl… I’m with Stip… please keep posting! :-)

Thanks Stip and Prof! That means a lot coming from you guys!

Uhmmm….at the moment of the equinox (and solstices, too), it is light in some parts of the world and dark in other parts of the world. Whether it is light or dark at the equinox simply depends upon where on Earth you happen to be sitting.

This dispute about daylight/nighttime is easily resolved.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunearth.html

provides a map of the earth, showing which parts are in sunlight and which in darkness, for a given date and time. You can select 22 September 2004 and ask for the map to show the time of the plane crash (1055 GMT or 2000 Sydney time or whatever your belief is). You can see that no matter what time you input, unless the flight left in the morning, Sydney time, the plane must have crashed in the dark if it was travelling eastward.

And note, if you subscribe to the belief that the plane left in the morning, Sydney time, this makes its departure date (in GMT) 21 September, not 22 September. So if the flight took off at anytime on 22 September GMT, it cannot have left Sydney any earlier than 10:01 am, Sydney time. Meaning that 6 or 8 hours later, depending on how long you believe the plane was in the air, and assuming it was travelling eastward from Sydney, it would have had to be in the dark (as you can see, if you put 4 pm Sydney time or 6 pm Sydney time into the map on the like provided).

Since we know it was full day when the plane crashed, it must have been travelling west, not east - putting the island somewhere in the Indian Ocean, not the Pacific.

Some very clever (and not so clever) arguments about the time-line here, and one of the pivotal points is the printed log that Desmond reads.

It’s been quoted as “System Failure Sept 2204416”. I haven’t verified this from a screen shot, but that seems to be a very strange date format.

Firstly, why “Sept” ? Wouldn’t it normally be “09” ? But the really strange thing is that there are only 3 digits for the time. There should be 4 digits to avoid any “am/pm” confusion.

If the system designers were crazy enough to use “Sept” instead of “09” then I suppose they could conceivably also have been crazy enough to use only 3 digits to record a 4-digit time, but then they would have had to have an “A” or “P” character to make any sense of it.

Computer systems would normally store a date/time stamp in a top-down hierarchical sequence year, month, day, hour, minute, i.e. “0409220416”.

Incidentally, it could be that we’re looking at a left-over millennium-bug problem, and that the log was referring to an event in 1904, not 2004.

(Hey, I’m new here. If this has already been covered, then I’m sorry.)